In case I missed it, has anyone suggested the option of a rubber bladder
in the existing tank?
Ralph
rk Hallett
Reno, NV
Venu Rao wrote:
>
> Count me in for my $100 too!
>
> I might also suggest that we explore increasing this amount if the
> $5,000 is an underestimate. We should run the numbers to see if those
> of us who put up this seed money will get their money back as a
> discount off the new tank design.
>
> I'd like very much to see a solution asap. Knowing heat can compromise
> the tank, I'm not looking forward to a searing Texas Summer. We Texans
> may have to cold store in summer and fly in winter ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Venu Rao
> Austin, Texas
> Europa mono - A058
> Flying-132.5 hours
> Builder: James Nelson
>
> On May 1, 2008, at 15:22, Alan Burrows <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
> wrote:
>
>> <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
>>
>> Hi Gary
>>
>> Having had to replace a tank and had the heartache of seeing fuel
>> running
>> out of the bottom of my aircraft TWICE (second time after attempting to
>> repair the old tank). I am willing to throe my $100 into the pot.
>> Count me in.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
>> Leinberger
>> Sent: 01 May 2008 18:02
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.
>>
>> <Gary.Leinberger@millersville.edu>
>>
>> I just replaced mine,although I did it before putting in the cockpit
>> module - it is actually not too bad to do from the bottom and may in
>> fact be easier from the top - but you do need to cut out the headrests -
>> and be ready to totally destroy the old tank, and sand out pieces of the
>> tank that end up "resined" to the rear upright of the cockpit module - a
>> very sloppy job - the real problem when working from the top, as I see
>> it - is that you can't put in the channel or T pieces from the top -
>> you essentially have to work through the holes for the spars and the
>> bottom hole for the fuel outlets from the tank - I was thinking however
>> that part of the problem in this tank may be that we glass it in too
>> tightly in a few places and as it moves from expansion, it works the
>> plastic and we get stress cracks - this was the problem on my first tank
>> - the stress came from using too much air pressure to test the system -
>> but at best I only cycled the tank to expansion a few times - so if it
>> failed then, it isn't too much of leap to suggest that regular expansion
>> from temperature changes could do the same - especially if the tank is
>> firmly held by fiberglass in a few places - the corner on the outside
>> edge below the overhang at top seems to be a particular place to
>> accumulate stress
>>
>> Maybe it would be smarter when replacing a tank to build a shelf below
>> that the tank sits on and then strap the tank in with enough elastic
>> slack to allow movement of the tank - yet still have enough strength to
>> avoid the tank breaking loose in a crash - but the stress cracks I got
>> from just a few cycles of air pressure really worry me -
>>
>> Perhaps some of us could get together and fund the building of a
>> prototype aluminum (or something else) tank - once we had a design we
>> could easily reproduce it at much lower cost - I doubt if the factory
>> could do it because of the nannies in the English PFA - but we could do
>> it in the US - I would be more than happy to put a hundred dollars or so
>> to fund development - I don't know how many of us are worried about this
>> but 50 builders at $100 each - is $5000 - would this be enough to do
>> this? By the way a replacement tank is 110 pounds and shipping is
>> another 110 pounds - total cost is over $400 - just for the tank - and
>> maybe 30-50 hours to replace it - so is $100 worth of insurance each to
>> have a better fix available worth it? I think so - any feedback from
>> people that know something about the cost of prototyping - I know the
>> first one is always expensive - but the second one should be a lot
>> cheaper -
>>
>>
>> Gary Leinberger
>> A237
>> gleinberger@millersville.edu
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Venu Rao
>> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 1:17 AM
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.
>>
>>
>> I'm rather concerned about this too. Going to have a look at my tank for
>> signs of bulging.
>>
>> Almost certain I'm converting the mono to a conventional through Bob
>> Berube. Just need to price it out.
>>
>> Do you know if the tank can be replaced easily?
>>
>> This forum is invaluable!
>> Hope all's well.
>> Cheers
>>
>> Venu
>>
>> Cell: (512) 771-3286
>>
>> On Apr 30, 2008, at 22:18, Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008, at 13:46 US/Pacific, Sidsel & Svein
>>> Johnsen wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> Preventing the tank from bulging too much forward will of course
>>>> prevent it touching any of the controls or the wing spar (in which
>>>> case the strap on the left spar might catch on the bulge during
>>>> withdrawal/installation).
>>>
>>> Before getting Svein's thoughtful and informative post (thank you
>>> Svein!), I spent some time looking for a solution to potential bulging
>>
>>> in my tank (which came w/ kit # A194, shipped from the factory in
>>> fall, 2000).
>>>
>>> In order to "contain" the (outward) bulging, I reset my spacers
>>> (which have generous curves at the corners of the specified lay up) to
>>
>>> ensure a gap between tank (dry and never filled w/ anything) of
>>> between 1/8" and 1/4" and maintaining 1/4" clearance from the aileron
>>> control rod, I was planning to do the following:
>>>
>>> Insert a piece of 1/8" thick plywood, 6.25" x 34", w/ 1 layer of bid
>>> each side between the spacers and the front face of the tank,
>>> cushioning the plywood w/ 1/8" thick "sill sealer" (I believe it is a
>>> closed cell polypropylene foam available in 6" rolls at any building
>>> supply) between the plywood and the forward face of the tank. Prior to
>>
>>> insertion, I would add a 3/4" x 2" x 34" foam stiffener w/ 2 layers
>>> bid on the forward face of the plywood. The plywood would be held in
>>> place w/ a 2 ply bid 2" wide tape which laps onto the underside of the
>>
>>> FG "shelf" (previously installed as per manual). In doing this, my
>>> goal would be to resist "bulging" of the forward face of the tank.
>>>
>>> Having reviewed Svein's post, I will not be doing anything until we
>>> have more information, hopefully in answer to Svein's questions on the
>>
>>> nature of the HDPE used in our tanks.
>>>
>>> I do appreciate so much the value of this forum as we attempt to
>>> address this insidious problem.
>>>
>>> Fred
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
>>> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Checked by AVG.
>> 18:10
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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