Jeff - I will be at Rough River - maybe we can between now and then get
some estimates on the cost of a prototype and poll others and then
discuss it at Rough River?
Gary Leinberger
A237
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEFF
ROBERTS
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.
I don't think there is anyone of us that wouldn't pay a reasonable
amount to have a future reliable replacement when needed. There are dang
few aircraft out there that can do what the Europa can do on 4.5 GPH.
Add that to the incredible handling of this design and you can put me
down for whatever it takes to keep it flying safely.
For you builders questioning your ownership decision from this post...
DON'T! You can't believe what fun is in store for your efforts.
Regards,
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 112 hours and enjoying every minute I get to
fly it!!!!
.
On May 1, 2008, at 3:22 PM, Alan Burrows wrote:
> <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
>
> Hi Gary
>
> Having had to replace a tank and had the heartache of seeing fuel
> running
> out of the bottom of my aircraft TWICE (second time after attempting
to
> repair the old tank). I am willing to throe my $100 into the pot.
> Count me in.
>
> Alan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
> Leinberger
> Sent: 01 May 2008 18:02
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.
>
> <Gary.Leinberger@millersville.edu>
>
> I just replaced mine,although I did it before putting in the cockpit
> module - it is actually not too bad to do from the bottom and may in
> fact be easier from the top - but you do need to cut out the headrests
> -
> and be ready to totally destroy the old tank, and sand out pieces of
> the
> tank that end up "resined" to the rear upright of the cockpit module -
> a
> very sloppy job - the real problem when working from the top, as I see
> it - is that you can't put in the channel or T pieces from the top -
> you essentially have to work through the holes for the spars and the
> bottom hole for the fuel outlets from the tank - I was thinking
> however
> that part of the problem in this tank may be that we glass it in too
> tightly in a few places and as it moves from expansion, it works the
> plastic and we get stress cracks - this was the problem on my first
> tank
> - the stress came from using too much air pressure to test the system
-
> but at best I only cycled the tank to expansion a few times - so if it
> failed then, it isn't too much of leap to suggest that regular
> expansion
> from temperature changes could do the same - especially if the tank is
> firmly held by fiberglass in a few places - the corner on the outside
> edge below the overhang at top seems to be a particular place to
> accumulate stress
>
> Maybe it would be smarter when replacing a tank to build a shelf below
> that the tank sits on and then strap the tank in with enough elastic
> slack to allow movement of the tank - yet still have enough strength
to
> avoid the tank breaking loose in a crash - but the stress cracks I got
> from just a few cycles of air pressure really worry me -
>
> Perhaps some of us could get together and fund the building of a
> prototype aluminum (or something else) tank - once we had a design we
> could easily reproduce it at much lower cost - I doubt if the factory
> could do it because of the nannies in the English PFA - but we could
> do
> it in the US - I would be more than happy to put a hundred dollars or
> so
> to fund development - I don't know how many of us are worried about
> this
> but 50 builders at $100 each - is $5000 - would this be enough to do
> this? By the way a replacement tank is 110 pounds and shipping is
> another 110 pounds - total cost is over $400 - just for the tank - and
> maybe 30-50 hours to replace it - so is $100 worth of insurance each
to
> have a better fix available worth it? I think so - any feedback from
> people that know something about the cost of prototyping - I know the
> first one is always expensive - but the second one should be a lot
> cheaper -
>
>
> Gary Leinberger
> A237
> gleinberger@millersville.edu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Venu Rao
> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 1:17 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.
>
>
> I'm rather concerned about this too. Going to have a look at my tank
> for
> signs of bulging.
>
> Almost certain I'm converting the mono to a conventional through Bob
> Berube. Just need to price it out.
>
> Do you know if the tank can be replaced easily?
>
> This forum is invaluable!
> Hope all's well.
> Cheers
>
> Venu
>
> Cell: (512) 771-3286
>
> On Apr 30, 2008, at 22:18, Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote:
>
<fklein@orcasonline.com>
>>
>> On Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008, at 13:46 US/Pacific, Sidsel & Svein
>> Johnsen wrote:
>>
>>> --> <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no
>>>>
>>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> Preventing the tank from bulging too much forward will of course
>>> prevent it touching any of the controls or the wing spar (in which
>>> case the strap on the left spar might catch on the bulge during
>>> withdrawal/installation).
>>
>> Before getting Svein's thoughtful and informative post (thank you
>> Svein!), I spent some time looking for a solution to potential
bulging
>
>> in my tank (which came w/ kit # A194, shipped from the factory in
>> fall, 2000).
>>
>> In order to "contain" the (outward) bulging, I reset my spacers
>> (which have generous curves at the corners of the specified lay up)
to
>
>> ensure a gap between tank (dry and never filled w/ anything) of
>> between 1/8" and 1/4" and maintaining 1/4" clearance from the aileron
>> control rod, I was planning to do the following:
>>
>> Insert a piece of 1/8" thick plywood, 6.25" x 34", w/ 1 layer of bid
>> each side between the spacers and the front face of the tank,
>> cushioning the plywood w/ 1/8" thick "sill sealer" (I believe it is a
>> closed cell polypropylene foam available in 6" rolls at any building
>> supply) between the plywood and the forward face of the tank. Prior
to
>
>> insertion, I would add a 3/4" x 2" x 34" foam stiffener w/ 2 layers
>> bid on the forward face of the plywood. The plywood would be held in
>> place w/ a 2 ply bid 2" wide tape which laps onto the underside of
the
>
>> FG "shelf" (previously installed as per manual). In doing this, my
>> goal would be to resist "bulging" of the forward face of the tank.
>>
>> Having reviewed Svein's post, I will not be doing anything until we
>> have more information, hopefully in answer to Svein's questions on
the
>
>> nature of the HDPE used in our tanks.
>>
>> I do appreciate so much the value of this forum as we attempt to
>> address this insidious problem.
>>
>> Fred
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
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> 18:10
>
>
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