Nigel,
WOW! A magnificent piece of work!
Check six,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
(95% done 95% to go) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module
installed, pitch system in, landing gear complete, rudder system in
with Singleton Mod, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap
pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in, baggage bay
in. Fuel system complete. Rotax and Airmaster installed. Mods 62,
66, 70 & 72 done. Completed the instrument panel install. Europa
interior kit being installed. Installed windows. Working in - 25
Electrical, 28 Flaps, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35
Doors, 37 Finishing. Mostly finishing these days.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On May 2, 2008, at 8:56, Nigel Graham wrote:
> Craig,
>
> I have been watching this thread develop with interest.
> I came to the conclusion a long time ago that I was not happy with the
> plastic tank. The theory was great - but the execution left a lot to
> be
> desired.
>
> To cut a long story sideways, I did make a magnesium alloy tank, and
> used
> the opportunity to increase the volume, and include solid state
> liquid level
> sensors in addition to the capacitance fuel probe, proper filters
> and AN
> fittings for alloy fuel pipes.
>
> Don't be under any illusions over how long this will take. All in
> all this
> set me back about 18 months of careful planning, pattern making and
> cutting.
> All edges were flanged and riveted to hold everything in precise
> place prior
> to welding. The conical fuselage section requires some interesting
> developments that are nowhere near a simple as they look.
> Admittedly, mine is more complex than you will most likely need, as I
> extended up into the headrests to increase volume (on the C of G).
>
> FYI take a look at the attached document I provided to our PFA to
> secure
> approval. It gives you a good idea of what the finished alloy tank
> might
> look like. Hopefully you can get a neater welder :-(
> My tank looked wonderful before welding. I could have cried when I
> received
> back the crumpled results.
>
> Nigel (the other one) Graham
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of craig
> bastin
> Sent: 02 May 2008 10:30
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.
>
>
> >
>
> Just for the guys thinking about the alloy tank prototype route, you
> HAVE a
> prototype, If you can "Borrow"
> one of the original tanks and copy it, Given it is largely flat
> panels, two
> with curves it would be easy to copy
> in a light sheet alloy or stainless. I would be happy to loan my
> tank other
> than its installed already, I am sure
> others would.
>
> craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Venu Rao
> Sent: Friday, 2 May 2008 10:26 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.
>
>
> Count me in for my $100 too!
>
> I might also suggest that we explore increasing this amount if the
> $5,000 is an underestimate. We should run the numbers to see if those
> of us who put up this seed money will get their money back as a
> discount off the new tank design.
>
> I'd like very much to see a solution asap. Knowing heat can compromise
> the tank, I'm not looking forward to a searing Texas Summer. We Texans
> may have to cold store in summer and fly in winter ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Venu Rao
> Austin, Texas
> Europa mono - A058
> Flying-132.5 hours
> Builder: James Nelson
>
> On May 1, 2008, at 15:22, Alan Burrows <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
> wrote:
>
> <alan@kestrel-insurance.com
>>>
>>
>> Hi Gary
>>
>> Having had to replace a tank and had the heartache of seeing fuel
>> running
>> out of the bottom of my aircraft TWICE (second time after attempting
>> to
>> repair the old tank). I am willing to throe my $100 into the pot.
>> Count me in.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
>> Leinberger
>> Sent: 01 May 2008 18:02
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.
>>
>> <Gary.Leinberger@millersville.edu>
>>
>> I just replaced mine,although I did it before putting in the cockpit
>> module - it is actually not too bad to do from the bottom and may in
>> fact be easier from the top - but you do need to cut out the
>> headrests -
>> and be ready to totally destroy the old tank, and sand out pieces of
>> the
>> tank that end up "resined" to the rear upright of the cockpit module
>> - a
>> very sloppy job - the real problem when working from the top, as I
>> see
>> it - is that you can't put in the channel or T pieces from the top -
>> you essentially have to work through the holes for the spars and the
>> bottom hole for the fuel outlets from the tank - I was thinking
>> however
>> that part of the problem in this tank may be that we glass it in too
>> tightly in a few places and as it moves from expansion, it works the
>> plastic and we get stress cracks - this was the problem on my first
>> tank
>> - the stress came from using too much air pressure to test the
>> system -
>> but at best I only cycled the tank to expansion a few times - so if
>> it
>> failed then, it isn't too much of leap to suggest that regular
>> expansion
>> from temperature changes could do the same - especially if the tank
>> is
>> firmly held by fiberglass in a few places - the corner on the outside
>> edge below the overhang at top seems to be a particular place to
>> accumulate stress
>>
>> Maybe it would be smarter when replacing a tank to build a shelf
>> below
>> that the tank sits on and then strap the tank in with enough elastic
>> slack to allow movement of the tank - yet still have enough strength
>> to
>> avoid the tank breaking loose in a crash - but the stress cracks I
>> got
>> from just a few cycles of air pressure really worry me -
>>
>> Perhaps some of us could get together and fund the building of a
>> prototype aluminum (or something else) tank - once we had a design we
>> could easily reproduce it at much lower cost - I doubt if the factory
>> could do it because of the nannies in the English PFA - but we
>> could do
>> it in the US - I would be more than happy to put a hundred dollars
>> or so
>> to fund development - I don't know how many of us are worried about
>> this
>> but 50 builders at $100 each - is $5000 - would this be enough to do
>> this? By the way a replacement tank is 110 pounds and shipping is
>> another 110 pounds - total cost is over $400 - just for the tank -
>> and
>> maybe 30-50 hours to replace it - so is $100 worth of insurance each
>> to
>> have a better fix available worth it? I think so - any feedback from
>> people that know something about the cost of prototyping - I know the
>> first one is always expensive - but the second one should be a lot
>> cheaper -
>>
>>
>> Gary Leinberger
>> A237
>> gleinberger@millersville.edu
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Venu Rao
>> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 1:17 AM
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.
>>
>>
>> I'm rather concerned about this too. Going to have a look at my tank
>> for
>> signs of bulging.
>>
>> Almost certain I'm converting the mono to a conventional through Bob
>> Berube. Just need to price it out.
>>
>> Do you know if the tank can be replaced easily?
>>
>> This forum is invaluable!
>> Hope all's well.
>> Cheers
>>
>> Venu
>>
>> Cell: (512) 771-3286
>>
>> On Apr 30, 2008, at 22:18, Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote:
>>
>>> <fklein@orcasonline.com>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008, at 13:46 US/Pacific, Sidsel & Svein
>>> Johnsen wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> Preventing the tank from bulging too much forward will of course
>>>> prevent it touching any of the controls or the wing spar (in which
>>>> case the strap on the left spar might catch on the bulge during
>>>> withdrawal/installation).
>>>
>>> Before getting Svein's thoughtful and informative post (thank you
>>> Svein!), I spent some time looking for a solution to potential
>>> bulging
>>
>>> in my tank (which came w/ kit # A194, shipped from the factory in
>>> fall, 2000).
>>>
>>> In order to "contain" the (outward) bulging, I reset my spacers
>>> (which have generous curves at the corners of the specified lay up)
>>> to
>>
>>> ensure a gap between tank (dry and never filled w/ anything) of
>>> between 1/8" and 1/4" and maintaining 1/4" clearance from the
>>> aileron
>>> control rod, I was planning to do the following:
>>>
>>> Insert a piece of 1/8" thick plywood, 6.25" x 34", w/ 1 layer of
>>> bid
>>> each side between the spacers and the front face of the tank,
>>> cushioning the plywood w/ 1/8" thick "sill sealer" (I believe it
>>> is a
>>> closed cell polypropylene foam available in 6" rolls at any building
>>> supply) between the plywood and the forward face of the tank. Prior
>>> to
>>
>>> insertion, I would add a 3/4" x 2" x 34" foam stiffener w/ 2 layers
>>> bid on the forward face of the plywood. The plywood would be held in
>>> place w/ a 2 ply bid 2" wide tape which laps onto the underside of
>>> the
>>
>>> FG "shelf" (previously installed as per manual). In doing this, my
>>> goal would be to resist "bulging" of the forward face of the tank.
>>>
>>> Having reviewed Svein's post, I will not be doing anything until we
>>> have more information, hopefully in answer to Svein's questions on
>>> the
>>
>>> nature of the HDPE used in our tanks.
>>>
>>> I do appreciate so much the value of this forum as we attempt to
>>> address this insidious problem.
>>>
>>> Fred
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
>>> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Checked by AVG.
>> 18:10
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 5:30 PM
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 5:30 PM
>
>
> <Magnesium Fuel Tank Modification.pdf>
|