Gary,
I just looked back through my records, it seems I spent ?120 ($240 today) on
two sheets of Magnesium alloy (though I only needed one).
I paid the welder ?150 ($300 today).
I had some 3/8" tubing (for the internal breathers) "in stock", and turned
up the fuel hose nozzle, filter housings and all other fittings from stock
material.
The lowest cost was my 18 months labour!!!
I don't have anything as sophisticated as "plans" though I do have a
cupboard full of carefully cut and numbered cardboard templates.
Nigel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary
Leinberger
Sent: 02 May 2008 15:41
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.
<Gary.Leinberger@millersville.edu>
Nigel - this is beautiful - what is the cost of building another one? Do
you have more detailed plans?
Gary Leinberger
A237
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nigel
Graham
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 9:57 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.
Craig,
I have been watching this thread develop with interest.
I came to the conclusion a long time ago that I was not happy with the
plastic tank. The theory was great - but the execution left a lot to be
desired.
To cut a long story sideways, I did make a magnesium alloy tank, and
used the opportunity to increase the volume, and include solid state
liquid level sensors in addition to the capacitance fuel probe, proper
filters and AN fittings for alloy fuel pipes.
Don't be under any illusions over how long this will take. All in all
this set me back about 18 months of careful planning, pattern making and
cutting.
All edges were flanged and riveted to hold everything in precise place
prior to welding. The conical fuselage section requires some interesting
developments that are nowhere near a simple as they look.
Admittedly, mine is more complex than you will most likely need, as I
extended up into the headrests to increase volume (on the C of G).
FYI take a look at the attached document I provided to our PFA to secure
approval. It gives you a good idea of what the finished alloy tank might
look like. Hopefully you can get a neater welder :-( My tank looked
wonderful before welding. I could have cried when I received back the
crumpled results.
Nigel (the other one) Graham
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of craig bastin
Sent: 02 May 2008 10:30
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.
--> <craigb@onthenet.com.au>
Just for the guys thinking about the alloy tank prototype route, you
HAVE a prototype, If you can "Borrow"
one of the original tanks and copy it, Given it is largely flat panels,
two with curves it would be easy to copy in a light sheet alloy or
stainless. I would be happy to loan my tank other than its installed
already, I am sure others would.
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Venu Rao
Sent: Friday, 2 May 2008 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.
Count me in for my $100 too!
I might also suggest that we explore increasing this amount if the
$5,000 is an underestimate. We should run the numbers to see if those of
us who put up this seed money will get their money back as a discount
off the new tank design.
I'd like very much to see a solution asap. Knowing heat can compromise
the tank, I'm not looking forward to a searing Texas Summer. We Texans
may have to cold store in summer and fly in winter ;-)
Cheers,
Venu Rao
Austin, Texas
Europa mono - A058
Flying-132.5 hours
Builder: James Nelson
On May 1, 2008, at 15:22, Alan Burrows <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
wrote:
<alan@kestrel-insurance.com
> >
>
> Hi Gary
>
> Having had to replace a tank and had the heartache of seeing fuel
> running out of the bottom of my aircraft TWICE (second time after
> attempting to repair the old tank). I am willing to throe my $100 into
> the pot.
> Count me in.
>
> Alan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
> Leinberger
> Sent: 01 May 2008 18:02
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.
>
> <Gary.Leinberger@millersville.edu>
>
> I just replaced mine,although I did it before putting in the cockpit
> module - it is actually not too bad to do from the bottom and may in
> fact be easier from the top - but you do need to cut out the headrests
> - and be ready to totally destroy the old tank, and sand out pieces of
> the tank that end up "resined" to the rear upright of the cockpit
> module
> - a
> very sloppy job - the real problem when working from the top, as I see
> it - is that you can't put in the channel or T pieces from the top -
> you essentially have to work through the holes for the spars and the
> bottom hole for the fuel outlets from the tank - I was thinking
> however that part of the problem in this tank may be that we glass it
> in too tightly in a few places and as it moves from expansion, it
> works the plastic and we get stress cracks - this was the problem on
> my first tank
> - the stress came from using too much air pressure to test the system
> - but at best I only cycled the tank to expansion a few times - so if
> it failed then, it isn't too much of leap to suggest that regular
> expansion from temperature changes could do the same - especially if
> the tank is firmly held by fiberglass in a few places - the corner on
> the outside edge below the overhang at top seems to be a particular
> place to accumulate stress
>
> Maybe it would be smarter when replacing a tank to build a shelf below
> that the tank sits on and then strap the tank in with enough elastic
> slack to allow movement of the tank - yet still have enough strength
> to avoid the tank breaking loose in a crash - but the stress cracks I
> got from just a few cycles of air pressure really worry me -
>
> Perhaps some of us could get together and fund the building of a
> prototype aluminum (or something else) tank - once we had a design we
> could easily reproduce it at much lower cost - I doubt if the factory
> could do it because of the nannies in the English PFA - but we could
> do it in the US - I would be more than happy to put a hundred dollars
> or so to fund development - I don't know how many of us are worried
> about this but 50 builders at $100 each - is $5000 - would this be
> enough to do this? By the way a replacement tank is 110 pounds and
> shipping is another 110 pounds - total cost is over $400 - just for
> the tank - and maybe 30-50 hours to replace it - so is $100 worth of
> insurance each to have a better fix available worth it? I think so -
> any feedback from people that know something about the cost of
> prototyping - I know the first one is always expensive - but the
> second one should be a lot cheaper -
>
>
> Gary Leinberger
> A237
> gleinberger@millersville.edu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Venu Rao
> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 1:17 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.
>
>
> I'm rather concerned about this too. Going to have a look at my tank
> for signs of bulging.
>
> Almost certain I'm converting the mono to a conventional through Bob
> Berube. Just need to price it out.
>
> Do you know if the tank can be replaced easily?
>
> This forum is invaluable!
> Hope all's well.
> Cheers
>
> Venu
>
> Cell: (512) 771-3286
>
> On Apr 30, 2008, at 22:18, Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote:
>
>> <fklein@orcasonline.com>
>>
>> On Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008, at 13:46 US/Pacific, Sidsel & Svein
>> Johnsen wrote:
>>
>>> --> <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no
>>>>
>>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> Preventing the tank from bulging too much forward will of course
>>> prevent it touching any of the controls or the wing spar (in which
>>> case the strap on the left spar might catch on the bulge during
>>> withdrawal/installation).
>>
>> Before getting Svein's thoughtful and informative post (thank you
>> Svein!), I spent some time looking for a solution to potential
>> bulging
>
>> in my tank (which came w/ kit # A194, shipped from the factory in
>> fall, 2000).
>>
>> In order to "contain" the (outward) bulging, I reset my spacers
>> (which have generous curves at the corners of the specified lay up)
>> to
>
>> ensure a gap between tank (dry and never filled w/ anything) of
>> between 1/8" and 1/4" and maintaining 1/4" clearance from the aileron
>> control rod, I was planning to do the following:
>>
>> Insert a piece of 1/8" thick plywood, 6.25" x 34", w/ 1 layer of bid
>> each side between the spacers and the front face of the tank,
>> cushioning the plywood w/ 1/8" thick "sill sealer" (I believe it is a
>> closed cell polypropylene foam available in 6" rolls at any building
>> supply) between the plywood and the forward face of the tank. Prior
>> to
>
>> insertion, I would add a 3/4" x 2" x 34" foam stiffener w/ 2 layers
>> bid on the forward face of the plywood. The plywood would be held in
>> place w/ a 2 ply bid 2" wide tape which laps onto the underside of
>> the
>
>> FG "shelf" (previously installed as per manual). In doing this, my
>> goal would be to resist "bulging" of the forward face of the tank.
>>
>> Having reviewed Svein's post, I will not be doing anything until we
>> have more information, hopefully in answer to Svein's questions on
>> the
>
>> nature of the HDPE used in our tanks.
>>
>> I do appreciate so much the value of this forum as we attempt to
>> address this insidious problem.
>>
>> Fred
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
> 18:10
>
>
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