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Re: Europa-List: Smart Ass

Subject: Re: Europa-List: Smart Ass
From: David Joyce <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 15:40:50

Karl, I could copy relevant sections of my mk 2 
installation manual to you if you tell me what you are 
after. David Joyce, G-XSDJ
PS Don't get confused over the multiple David Joyces in 
this message!


  Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com> wrote:
> David,
> I was also looking for the installation manual, but 
>without success. There is one website but they want my 
>credit card details for a trial membership. Has Mark got 
>it online somewhere ?
> regards Karl
> 
> Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 14:31:30 +0100
>From: stranfaer@btinternet.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Smart Ass
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> 
> David
> I agree entirely, I have contacted Mark burton and he 
>informs me the mark 2 version is in test and is a few 
>months away. Cost appears to be very reasonable!
> Can you enlighten us all if it is retro fittable? and 
>how easy to do particularly on a classic?rgdsDJ Sent to 
>you by David Joyce
> www.eastmidsspas.com   PLEASE NOTE WE HAVE MOVED AND ARE 
>NOW ATThe Zycomm Building 51 Nottingham Road Ripley 
>Derbys DE5 3AS160 Meters from Sainsbury's Island Same 
>Phone 0800 4102122 and Direct Mobile 07973 675755
> 
>        From:
> David Joyce <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
> To: europa-list@matronics.com 
> Sent: Sunday, 11 May 2014, 11:42
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: 
>Europa-List: Re:  Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: 
>Europa-List: Europa Crash in  Lbeck/Germany
>   
><davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
> 
> Graham, Sorry to be butting in on your debate with Tim, 
>and I see where you are coming from now, but can I just 
>add that the SmartASS is g compensated so it gives 
>exactly the same 'margin over stall' information as an 
>AOA device (and at a fraction of the price). It might 
>appear that I am pushing this as if I had some
> commercial tie up, which is not the case. I am 
>evangelical about it because we have now had (subject to 
>confirmation in this latest case) 6 Europas lost to 
>stall/spin accidents, an appalling statistic for a plane 
>that flies so beautifully and is slippery enough not to 
>lose speed rapidly. There have of course been countless 
>crashes of other types also, but in our relatively small 
>and tight knit Europa community it is truly sobering and 
>we should all be asking ourselves are we confident of not 
>becoming number 7.
> Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
> 
> 
> GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> Tim
>> maybe we are mixing things a bit. ASI will measure 
>>instantly changes in airspeed. When AoA changes aircraft 
>>speed will not change instantly but will take several 
>>seconds.
>>
> The force causing change of airspeed is increase or 
>decrease in drag, usually quite a small force.
>> During take off acceleration is caused by engine thrust 
>>and ASI will record speed of course, as soon as the 
>>aircraft is flying AoA should quickly settle at best 
>>climb.
>> Stall occurs at the same AoA whatever airspeed or total 
>>weight is. (I'm thinking aloud here)
>> In fact best climb, cruise or glide speeds are also at 
>>fixed AoAs. They are not at fixed airspeeds but
>> change as all up weight changes.
>> AoA is much the best primary flight control instrument. 
>>That's why fast jets use it.
>> A pity AoA meters aren't mass produced like ASIs are!
>> best regards
>> Graham
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: houlihan <houlihan@blueyonder.co.uk>
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, 11 May 2014, 
>>8:34
>> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: 
>>Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Europa Crash in 
>>Lbeck/Germany
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Graham.
>> 
>> We may be talking apples against pears here BUT if what 
>>you say is true then on takeoff I would be at 100' 
>>thinking about retracting the undercarriage before the 
>>ASI has moved from zero.
>> 
>> I agree it takes time to accelerate or decelerate a 
>>600kg mass but the pressure measurement showing movement 
>>relative to the local air mass will be indicated within a 
>>small fraction of a second even using our normal 
>>mechanical manometers that are calibrated in airspeed and 
>>could be even quicker using electronic pressure sensors 
>>close to the pitot head.
>> 
>> True an AOA or alpha system would be helpful but I
> just want to be warned if through lack of attention or 
>being distracted I allow my speed to decay , these lack 
>of attention or distraction events usually build up 
>slowly without it being noticed and I would guess rarely 
>happens over one or two seconds.
>> 
>> best regards
>> 
>> Tim 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 10 May 2014 22:28, GRAHAM SINGLETON 
>><grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Tim
>>> don't think so , the ASI won't move (or shouldn't!) 
>>>until the aircraft has accelerated, or worse slowed down 
>>>and that takes many seconds.
>>> When it says "stall speed!" you.ve already stalled. Not 
>>>a lot of use.
>>> Graham
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: houlihan <houlihan@blueyonder.co.uk>
>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, 10 May 
>>>2014, 14:31
>>> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: 
>>>Europa Crash in Lbeck/Germany
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi Graham.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think you may have put the decimal point in the wrong 
>>>place. I appreciate what you are suggesting but 20 
>>>seconds ?
>>> I bet the real figure is much less than a second.
>>> Mind you how would you measure the lag , my ASI seems to 
>>>move at the speed of light at times.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Tim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 10 May 2014 13:19, GRAHAM SINGLETON 
>>><grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Or an AoA meter as primary attitude/speed instrument. 
>>>The ASI is always 20 seconds too late.
>>>> Very sad, I met Manfred while he was building. A very 
>>>>nice man and a nice Europa.
>>>> Graham
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: David Joyce <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, 10 May 
>>>>2014, 12:36
>>>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Crash in Lbeck/Germany
>>>> 
>>>>
> 
>>>><davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I strongly suspect that this another case where a 
>>>>SmartASS or the equivalent might have saved them both. 
>>>>David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List 
>>>>tp://forums.matronics.com 
>>>>_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution 
>>> 
>>> http://www.matronics.com/con================ 
>>> 
>>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.========================/
>> ============avigator?Europa-List" 
>>target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?= Same 
>>great content also
> ttp://forums.matronics.com/" 
>target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com/sp; 
>                    -nics.com/contribution" 
>target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribut==============
> 
> 
> 
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