=?iso-8859-1?Q?t=3A_Re=3A__Europa-List=3A_Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_Re=3A_Euro?=
=?iso-8859-1?Q?pa-List=3A_Europa_Crash_in__L=FCbeck/Germany?
I also respect Mark Burton's work although I did fail to persuade him to us
e AoA..=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Da
vid Joyce <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASe
nt: Sunday, 11 May 2014, 11:42=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List:
Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Europ
avid Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>=0A=0AGraham, Sorry to be butting in
on your debate with Tim, and I see where you are coming from now, but can
I just add that the SmartASS is g compensated so it gives exactly the same
'margin over stall' information as an AOA device (and at a fraction of the
price). It might appear that I am pushing this as if I had some commercial
tie up, which is not the case. I am evangelical about it because we have no
w had (subject to confirmation in this latest case) 6 Europas lost to stall
/spin accidents, an appalling statistic for a plane that flies so beautiful
ly and is slippery enough not to lose speed rapidly. There have of course b
een countless crashes of other types also, but in our relatively small and
tight knit Europa community it is truly sobering and we should all be askin
g ourselves are we confident of not becoming number 7.=0ARegards, David Joy
TON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote:=0A> Tim=0A> maybe we are mixing
things a bit. ASI will measure instantly changes in airspeed. When AoA cha
nges aircraft speed will not change instantly but will take several seconds
.=0A> The force causing change of airspeed is increase or decrease in drag,
usually quite a small force.=0A> During take off acceleration is caused by
engine thrust and ASI will record speed of course, as soon as the aircraft
is flying AoA should quickly settle at best climb.=0A> Stall occurs at the
same AoA whatever airspeed or total weight is. (I'm thinking aloud here)
=0A> In fact best climb, cruise or glide speeds are also at fixed AoAs. The
y are not at fixed airspeeds but=0A> change as all up weight changes.=0A> A
oA is much the best primary flight control instrument. That's why fast jets
use it.=0A> A pity AoA meters aren't mass produced like ASIs are!=0A> best
regards=0A> Graham=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> _______________________________
_=0A> From: houlihan <houlihan@blueyonder.co.uk>=0A> To: europa-list@matron
ics.com Sent: Sunday, 11 May 2014, 8:34=0A> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europ
a-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Europa Crash in
L=FCbeck/Germany=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Hi Graham.=0A> =0A> We may be talking a
pples against pears here BUT if what you say is true then on takeoff I woul
d be at 100' thinking about retracting the undercarriage before the ASI has
moved from zero.=0A> =0A> I agree it takes time to accelerate or decelerat
e a 600kg mass but the pressure measurement showing movement relative to th
e local air mass will be indicated within a small fraction of a second even
using our normal mechanical manometers that are calibrated in airspeed and
could be even quicker using electronic pressure sensors close to the pitot
head.=0A> =0A> True an AOA or alpha system would be helpful but I just wan
t to be warned if through lack of attention or being distracted I allow my
speed to decay , these lack of attention or distraction events usually buil
d up slowly without it being noticed and I would guess rarely happens over
one or two seconds.=0A> =0A> best regards=0A> =0A> Tim-=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A
> On 10 May 2014 22:28, GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> w
rote:=0A> =0A> Tim=0A>> don't think so , the ASI won't move (or shouldn't!)
until the aircraft has accelerated, or worse slowed down and that takes ma
ny seconds.=0A>> When it says "stall speed!" you.ve already stalled. Not a
lot of use.=0A>> Graham=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> __________
______________________=0A>> From: houlihan <houlihan@blueyonder.co.uk>=0A>>
To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, 10 May 2014, 14:31=0A>> Subj
ect: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Europa Crash in L=FCbec
k/Germany=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> Hi Graham.=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> I think you ma
y have put the decimal point in the wrong place. I appreciate what you are
suggesting but 20 seconds ?=0A>> I bet the real figure is much less than a
second.=0A>> Mind you how would you measure the lag , my ASI seems to move
at the speed of light at times.=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> Tim=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>>
=0A>> =0A>> On 10 May 2014 13:19, GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinte
rnet.com> wrote:=0A>> =0A>> Or an AoA meter as primary attitude/speed instr
ument. The ASI is always 20 seconds too late.=0A>>> Very sad, I met Manfred
while he was building. A very nice man and a nice Europa.=0A>>> Graham=0A>
>> =0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> ______________________________
__=0A>>> From: David Joyce <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>=0A>>> To: europa-lis
t@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, 10 May 2014, 12:36=0A>>> Subject: Re: Europ
a-List: Europa Crash in L=FCbeck/Germany=0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> --> Europa-Lis
t message posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>=0A>>> =0A>>>
=0A>>> I strongly suspect that this another case where a SmartASS or the e
quivalent might have saved them both. David Joyce, G-XSDJ=0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>
>> =0A>>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List t
p://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>
> =0A>> http://www.matronics.com/con=============
=== =0A>> =0A>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?E
uropa-List=0A> tp://forums.matronics.com=0A> _blank">http://www.===
======================0A> ==
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