=?iso-8859-1?Q?t=3A_Re=3A__Europa-List=3A_Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_Re=3A_Euro?=
=?iso-8859-1?Q?pa-List=3A_Europa_Crash_in__L=FCbeck/Germany?
David=0Aalways respect your remarks so no apology needed. =0AI need to scra
tch my bald patch to understand the G compensation aspect.=0AOne of the thi
ngs that disturbs me somewhat is that several of these accidents were with
Classics=0ADon's excellent airfoil section is very critical to inaccuracy a
round the leading edge and I noticed that sanding the LE with =0Atemplates
generated from computer printouts made a big difference to the way the wing
stalled. A single stroke=0Ain the wrong place with a flat abrasive sander
can destroy the LE profile.=0Aregartds=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________
___________________=0A From: David Joyce <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>=0ATo:
europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 11 May 2014, 11:42=0ASubject: Re
: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Euro
pa-List: Re: Europa-List: Europa Crash in L=FCbeck/Germany=0A =0A=0A--> Eu
ropa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>=0A
=0AGraham, Sorry to be butting in on your debate with Tim, and I see where
you are coming from now, but can I just add that the SmartASS is g compensa
ted so it gives exactly the same 'margin over stall' information as an AOA
device (and at a fraction of the price). It might appear that I am pushing
this as if I had some commercial tie up, which is not the case. I am evange
lical about it because we have now had (subject to confirmation in this lat
est case) 6 Europas lost to stall/spin accidents, an appalling statistic fo
r a plane that flies so beautifully and is slippery enough not to lose spee
d rapidly. There have of course been countless crashes of other types also,
but in our relatively small and tight knit Europa community it is truly so
bering and we should all be asking ourselves are we confident of not becomi
ng number 7.=0ARegards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ=0A=0A=0AOn Sun, 11 May 2014 11:
:=0A> Tim=0A> maybe we are mixing things a bit. ASI will measure instantly
changes in airspeed. When AoA changes aircraft speed will not change instan
tly but will take several seconds.=0A> The force causing change of airspeed
is increase or decrease in drag, usually quite a small force.=0A> During t
ake off acceleration is caused by engine thrust and ASI will record speed o
f course, as soon as the aircraft is flying AoA should quickly settle at be
st climb.=0A> Stall occurs at the same AoA whatever airspeed or total weigh
t is. (I'm thinking aloud here)=0A> In fact best climb, cruise or glide spe
eds are also at fixed AoAs. They are not at fixed airspeeds but=0A> change
as all up weight changes.=0A> AoA is much the best primary flight control i
nstrument. That's why fast jets use it.=0A> A pity AoA meters aren't mass p
roduced like ASIs are!=0A> best regards=0A> Graham=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>
________________________________=0A> From: houlihan <houlihan@blueyonder.co
.uk>=0A> To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, 11 May 2014, 8:34=0A>
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re
: Europa-List: Europa Crash in L=FCbeck/Germany=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Hi Graha
m.=0A> =0A> We may be talking apples against pears here BUT if what you say
is true then on takeoff I would be at 100' thinking about retracting the u
ndercarriage before the ASI has moved from zero.=0A> =0A> I agree it takes
time to accelerate or decelerate a 600kg mass but the pressure measurement
showing movement relative to the local air mass will be indicated within a
small fraction of a second even using our normal mechanical manometers that
are calibrated in airspeed and could be even quicker using electronic pres
sure sensors close to the pitot head.=0A> =0A> True an AOA or alpha system
would be helpful but I just want to be warned if through lack of attention
or being distracted I allow my speed to decay , these lack of attention or
distraction events usually build up slowly without it being noticed and I w
ould guess rarely happens over one or two seconds.=0A> =0A> best regards=0A
> =0A> Tim-=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> On 10 May 2014 22:28, GRAHAM SINGLETON <gr
ahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote:=0A> =0A> Tim=0A>> don't think so , the
ASI won't move (or shouldn't!) until the aircraft has accelerated, or wors
e slowed down and that takes many seconds.=0A>> When it says "stall speed!"
you.ve already stalled. Not a lot of use.=0A>> Graham=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A
>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> ________________________________=0A>> From: houlihan <
houlihan@blueyonder.co.uk>=0A>> To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturda
y, 10 May 2014, 14:31=0A>> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europ
a-List: Europa Crash in L=FCbeck/Germany=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> Hi Graham.
=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> I think you may have put the decimal point in the wrong p
lace. I appreciate what you are suggesting but 20 seconds ?=0A>> I bet the
real figure is much less than a second.=0A>> Mind you how would you measure
the lag , my ASI seems to move at the speed of light at times.=0A>> =0A>>
=0A>> Tim=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> On 10 May 2014 13:19, GRAHAM S
INGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote:=0A>> =0A>> Or an AoA meter
as primary attitude/speed instrument. The ASI is always 20 seconds too lat
e.=0A>>> Very sad, I met Manfred while he was building. A very nice man and
a nice Europa.=0A>>> Graham=0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>
> ________________________________=0A>>> From: David Joyce <davidjoyce@doct
ors.org.uk>=0A>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, 10 May 2014
, 12:36=0A>>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Crash in L=FCbeck/Germany=0A
yce@doctors.org.uk>=0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> I strongly suspect that this anothe
r case where a SmartASS or the equivalent might have saved them both. David
Joyce, G-XSDJ=0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> arget="_blank">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Europa-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www
.matronics.com/contribution =0A>> =0A>> http://www.matronics.com/con==
============== =0A>> =0A>> arget="_blank">htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0A> tp://forums.matronics.com
=0A> _blank">http://www.=================
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