Carl,
Yes, below some magic height the 180 turn back will be a killer in
any aircraft, but different for every aircraft. Above that height it
might be a lifesaver. So, what is the height for various permutations
of airspeed, flap, weight, prop status etc?
I can only say that I was always able to do a safe 180 at 75kts,
flaps up (trigear, 100HP) in about 250 feet when I practised.
When it all goes quiet, we don't have long to think about it so a
personal rule of thumb about when and when not to attempt a turn back
is worth deriving in advance from the comfort of our armchairs.
What other views/data has anyone got?
Willie
On 19 Jun 2007, at 11:54, Carl Pattinson wrote:
> Based on my experience of takeoff in the Europa (we only have the
> 80hp Fixed pitch) airspeed will only be in the region of 65 knots
> at this stage flaps down (we dont retract the flaps till 500
> feet) .The steep bank that would be required for a 180 degree turn
> at such a height would almost certainly result the inboard wing
> stalling with inevitable results.
>
> Glider pilots who have practiced winch failures at such a low
> height will know that 180 degree turns are killers. Anything under
> 500 feet and the only safe option is to land sraight ahead -
> sometimes a 90 degree turn may be possible if the field is large
> enough.
>
> While its impossible to predict the outcome of landing ahead even
> in shrub or bush the likelyhood is that the occupants of a Europa
> crash would walk away from it. Such a crash occurred about three
> years ago in Alderney - (Channel Islands) and the occupants
> survived with few injuries.
>
> Carl Pattinson
> G-LABS
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: William Harrison
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:56 AM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Incident - 180 turns
>
> Who knows what all the factors were in this tragic incident.
> However, it highlights the issue of turning back to the runway.
> John Brownlow, who did my conversion training for the Europa, told/
> showed me that you can do a safe 180 turn back from 300 feet (much
> lower than for many types). I practised a few times. I think I'll
> practise a few more times.
>
> The early news reports suggested that the crash aircraft was
> between 200 and 300 feet when it turned back.
>
> Willie
>
>
> On 19 Jun 2007, at 01:45, Tom Friedland wrote:
>
>> A bit of information. Ken was very experienced and an airforce
>> c-130 pilot/instructor. He flew his Europa frequently like once a
>> week.
>>
>> He took off West into the prevailing wind and to the West there is
>> a large golf course under the approach to the runway. The crash
>> site is between the runway and the golf course.
>>
>> It seems strange. A pilot with his experience and one would think
>> if he had an engine failure that he would elect the natural
>> emegency site ahead. Can that mean that there was a control
>> failure or perhaps a sudden medical cause? We may never know.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>> On 6/18/07, Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote:
>> Dave and Dale,
>>
>> I offer my most sincere condolences to you and all the friends and
>> family of Ken Hill and his passenger. Since you two appear to have
>> had
>> personal relationships with Ken, I hope you will continue to share
>> any
>> information on the accident with the Europa community.
>>
>> Fred
>>
>> >
>> > After reading about the crash, I called my friend Ken Hill who
>> flies
>> > out of Livermore. His wife Sandy, who was sobbing, told me it
>> was,
>> > in fact, her husband Ken who had died in the crash. Ken was a
>> > terrific guy, former military pilot with a lot of hours. Another
>> > terrible loss.
>> > Dale Hetrick
>>
>> On Sunday, June 17, 2007, at 09:44 AM, David DeFord wrote:
>>
>> > Mike,
>> >
>> > Ken had long range tanks, which could have been installed at the
>> time
>> > of the crash. Here is a description of the tanks, which he posted
>> > about a year ago:
>> >
>> > The tanks are 6 gal. Evinrude Johnson "Duratank" from the local
>> boat
>> > dealer. I use quick disconnect fittings from Europa and the pump is
>> > Facet 40105 from Aircraft Spruce. The tanks are strapped to the
>> wing
>> > tie bar for restraint.
>> >
>> > I last saw Ken's airplane in his garage about a year ago, not long
>> > after his return from a long trip, and the tanks were in the
>> airplane
>> > at that time. Whether he left them thereat all times, I don't know,
>> > nor can I comment on the crash worthiness of the tie-downs he
>> used to
>> > hold them in place. I am only suggesting that the fire in this
>> > accident might not be representative of what is likely to happen to
>> > other Europas in a similar crash. (Third-hand accounts I have heard
>> > of the accident say that the impact was nearly vertical.)
>> >
>> > Dave DeFord
>> > N135TD
>>
>> --
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>> believed to be clean.
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List";>http://
>> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhref="http://
>> forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List";>http://
> www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com";>http://
> forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List_-
> ============================================================ _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ===========================================================
>
|