Jim,
Ok, I give up. You have objective data to support your position. Here's my
story............I took my first demo ride at Sun N'Fun, I think in 1998. I
went up in a mono (only thing available) with Europa's English test pilot.
I can't remember his name but he was later killed in a plane crash. During
taxi, takeoff and landing he was fighting the plane mightily, and I was
scared out of my wits. Once in the air, we were fine and he put me through
his aerobatic routine that he flew during the air show portion of Sun N'Fun.
Jump ahead a year or so. I met with Bob Berube at Lakeland and asked about
demo rides. By now he had both a mono and a trigear on site. Bob WOULDN'T
fly the mono, but we went up in the trigear. I love every aspect of it and
bought the kit on the spot.
Jump ahead another year or so. A local guy finished his mono and was
looking for a test pilot to do the first flight. The most famous,
experienced and respected test pilot in west central Florida was contacted
and he agreed to do the flight. Upon landing he lost control, ran off the
side of the runway and put it into the weeds. Fortunately, no significant
damage. This is a guy who's flown hundreds of different aircraft, flown for
the military, has 20,000 hours plus, and is a certified test pilot. He
cursed the Europa as the worst ground handling airplane he'd ever flown, and
swore to never get near another one as long as he lived.
Shortly thereafter, the Europa accidents began to become frequent, and
Europa was dropped from every insurance carrier's list of insurable planes.
I had a devil of a time convincing them that MY Europa wasn't like all those
that were having accidents.
Over the last 7 years or so we've all read on the forum about the number of
people who have converted from mono to trigear, after having their wits
scared out of them. Many others describe their harrowing tales of accidents
or near accidents with the mono. For what? a few gallons of gas savings?
I'm sure the savings in fuel bills is more than offset in higher insurance
premiums.
I've flown a number of times in monos with Bill Stewart and others. Even
after 100 or more hours in the mono, Bill's face would break out with
perspiration on final, and I'd nearly soil my skivies. I've NEVER felt
comfortable in a mono.
Can it be flown safely? Of course it can. You and many others are proof of
that. I guess it's like owning a pit bull dog. Many owners have great pit
bulls as pets, but always lurking around the corner is the possibility of
the dog biting you. Same with the Europa mono. Given a choice, I chose a
Laborador Retriever and a trigear.
I hope you take no personal offense to my postings. I respect and admire
you too much to want that to happen. In the end, it's all a matter of
personal preference.
Best regards and holiday wishes,
Garry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Brown" <acrojim@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?]
>
> Garry;
>
> You are painting a picture with a very large brush.
>
> One example;
>
> In 2001, or 2002, Europa had the Glider wings at Sun and Fun and had
> installed
> them on the Mono wheel. This was the first public showing of the glider
> wings
> installed on the mono wheel. Keith wanted to get pictures of the Tri-gears
> and
> a mono wheel in formation. So a photo shoot was put together.
>
> Jim Thursby flew a customers tri-gear, Clive flew the company tri-gear
> demonstrator, I flew our mono wheel, and Andy flew the company mono wheel
> with
> the long wings attached. All four planes were topped off with fuel.
>
> We were in the air over two hours with all four planes and the camera
> ship.
>
> After landing all four planes were refueled. The two tri-gear's took over
> two
> gallons each, more fuel than my mono wheel. I had used over a gallon more
> than
> the glider winged mono wheel.
>
> We were all at about the same airspeed, in the same area for the flight,
> so the conditions were the same on each aircraft.
>
> The tri-geared just simply burned more fuel.
>
> Jim Brown
> N398JB
>
> Garry wrote:
>
>>
>> I remain completely baffled as to why so many Europa pilots have chosen
>> the
>> mono over the trigear when given a choice. There is absolutely zero
>> performance advantage to the mono, in rate of climb, in cruise speed, in
>> fuel burn, or whatever. The difference is that the mono is inheritantly
>> unstable in landing (and takeoff) configuration. Everyone (almost) else
>> in
>> the aircraft business, both large and small, has abandon the taildragger
>> design, and no one else is building mono wheel planes. For the life of
>> me I
>> cannot understand why Ivan thought he could be successful when the rest
>> of
>> the world says it's an unstable design. The proof is in the results.
>> Europa mono's are ground looping, wheelbarrowing, bending props, running
>> off
>> the tarmac, and generally destroying themselves with regularity. Perhaps
>> that is a smart marketing strategy........to design a product that
>> requires
>> regular parts replacement and rebuilding, but as a pilot I'm not
>> impressed.
>> I do acknowledge that there are a few among our ranks who get a certain
>> thrill out of placing themselves in danger on every flight, and love the
>> challenge of taming a wild and unpredictable beast. It makes for good
>> chest
>> thumping and bragging rights at the local pub, but might I suggest that
>> you
>> take up the (American) sport of bull riding. It's probably safer and
>> more
>> satisfying than trying to land a mono. I'm not trying to stir up the
>> ranks,
>> but simply trying to understand the motivation of choosing an unstable
>> design over a proper one. Both Europas are fabulous planes in the air,
>> but
>> one operates on the ground in a proper fashion while the other acts like
>> a
>> drunk and wounded gooney bird. Let's hear some logical and unemotional
>> arguments in favor of the mono.
>>
>> Trigear pilot
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jim Thursby" <jthursby@tampabay.rr.com>
>> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?]
>>
>> > <jthursby@tampabay.rr.com>
>> >
>> > Hi Chris,
>> > If you are that gung ho, by all means try it yourself but don't say you
>> > weren't warned. I thought I was smarter than Ivan Shaw once too.
>> > Against
>> > his wishes (and unknown to) I spent the better part of two hours
>> > trying
>> > to
>> > wheel land one of the company planes. I've been told it was some of
>> > the
>> > most entertaining stuff the controllers at Lakeland had ever seen. It
>> > will
>> > squeak the main on ever so gently with just a touch of power, then the
>> > tail
>> > slams to the runway and you are rewarded for your carelessness with
>> > another
>> > chance or two at landing it properly. If you recover from the
>> > resulting
>> > three to ten foot bounce and haven't clipped your propeller, and if you
>> > haven't ground looped it, and if you haven't stalled and dropped it in,
>> > you
>> > can attempt another landing. I tried many times and NEVER got it to
>> > stay
>> > on
>> > the ground. If you must attempt wheel landings in a tail dragger
>> > aircraft
>> > please buy or build an RV and save the Europa community from losing
>> > another
>> > aircraft from the ranks. And the prop is VERY close when on the main
>> > wheel
>> > with the plane in a slight nose down attitude.
>> >
>> > Jim T.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Beck
>> > To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa
>> > XS?]
>> >
>> >
>> > Jim Brown wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>I would also suggest, to those of you who want to "TRY" to wheel land a
>> >>mono wheel, you need to do one thing first. With the engine off, have a
>> >>friend or helper raise the tail to normal flight attitude, then take a
>> >>look at how close the prop is to the ground or pavement. One bounce on
>> >>landing, and you may be buying new prop blades.
>> >>
>> >>The center of gravity is behind the mono wheel, which will make the
>> >>tail drop down, as soon as the wheel touches the runway, if you counter
>> >>with some forward stick, re-read the above paragraph.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Jim, what sort of clearance are we talking about?? 2"? 6"? I've got
>> > a
>> > mile on the 140. I'd have to be looking straight at the dirt to get
>> > the
>> > prop grounded.
>> >
>> > Regarding the C of G, it's the same issue on any taildragger. It's
>> > behind
>> > the mains, which causes the tail to drop when landing due to the
>> > inertia.
>> > Trick is to zero out the rate of descent just as the mains touch, then
>> > nail
>> > it with that bit of forward stick (as I'm sure you know very well from
>> > the
>> > Pitts). Again, is it strictly a prop clearance issue that prevents
>> > wheelies
>> > in the monowheel? Has this been beaten to death in the past where I
>> > can
>> > look it up in the archives?
>> >
>> > I'm just very curious about the mechanics of landing a monowheel. I've
>> > flown in a few different ones (a Classic and an XS). Now that I'm
>> > flying
>> > a
>> > tailwheel plan, I understand a lot more of what's going on.
>> >
>> > Chris
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
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