I spoke to Kim at Arlington and he said more like 850 pounds.
James Thursby
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa@post.aviators.net
Subject: Re: Realalistic airspeeds
Hmmmm if you want to compare apples with apples, MTOW or MAUW is the same
(well OK, an unmoded classic is 70lbs lighter) - actually Kim's a/c isn't
that light: tips the scales at 800lbs. Now John Tye's is 720 odd....
M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Housman" <robh@hyperion-ef.com>
Subject: RE: Realalistic airspeeds
> Let's go back to ground school. To keep it simple, consider straight and
> level flight: additional weight requires more lift to balance the forces,
> but to generate more lift the wing's angle of attack must increase, and at
> greater angles of attack more drag is induced. To overcome the additional
> drag we have two choices (or a combination of the two): add power or
accept
> slower speed. Obviously things are not quite this simple because, for
> example, if we let the speed decrease that increases the induced drag but
> the parasitic and interference drag both decrease for a net reduction in
> drag (except in slow flight where the total drag increases as speed is
> reduced).
>
> A practical demonstration of the incremental improvement from weight
> reduction is provided by some airlines that go so far as to leave most of
> the fuselage unpainted, not because they like the look of shiny aluminum
but
> specifically to decrease fuel burn at cruise (lower weight, same speed,
> reduced power, lower fuel burn).
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob Housman
> A070
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa@post.aviators.net
> Subject: Re: Realalistic airspeeds
>
> Not at all contraire. Building light greatly improves T/O and climb but I
> think has little effect on speed. Reducing drag increase speed but its
hard
> for me to see how Kim has acheived the sorts of reduction in drag
necassary
> to give the speeds that I have heard quoted. I didn't say he claimed to be
a
> deity, they never do, do they? He's clearly very talented and whilst his
> acheivments may set admirable targets for mere mortals I think it would be
> appropriate to make it clear that most builders (all that I know of so
far)
> fail to acheive anything like the figures acheived by Kim.
>
> Jerry
>
> LTS@avnet.co.uk
> www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rob Housman" <ROB-HOUSMAN@worldnet.att.net>
> "Karp" <karp@montrose.net>; <europa@avnet.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: Realalistic airspeeds
>
>
> > Au contraire, the performance of Kim's aircraft is indeed relevant for
the
> > rest of us even if it is only as a benchmark.
> >
> > Although Kim's build philosophy may include a religious attention to
> detail
> > he makes no claims to being a deity, and no god-like powers would be
> needed
> > to duplicate his accomplishments. It's all a matter of attitude.
N111EU
> > was built light, and incorporates drag reducing modifications beyond the
> > factory's speed kit, but any mortal builder could duplicate what Kim has
> > done. His aircraft may be relatively Spartan (emphasis on relatively,
> > because it is certainly not austere) compared to, for example, Dennis
> > Vories' XS (whose interior could be compared to a Lexus) but that's
> > essential to keeping it light. Since the proverbial free lunch still
does
> > not exist, each of us must choose to build light and go fast, or build
> plush
> > and sacrifice speed. Just because most builders seem to prefer to have
a
> > little more of the plush stuff that adds weight and decreases speed is
no
> > reason to exclude N111EU as a valid example of the Europa's performance.
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Rob Housman
> > A070
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "LTS" <lts@avnet.co.uk>
<karp@montrose.net>;
> > <europa@avnet.co.uk>
> > Subject: Re: Realalistic airspeeds
> >
> >
> > > I don't think looking at the performance of Kim Prout's aircraft is
> > > particularly helpful, unless you're a god. Nobody else seems to have
> come
> > > near to the performance acheieved by Kim!!!!! I think this guy wants
to
> > know
> > > what he can expect to acheive if he buys or builds a regular 914
Europa
> > Tri
> > > gear. There are several out there and we have sold props for at least
> two
> > > 914 trikes and one 914 mono. I am sure someone can give him typical
> > actuals.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > > LTS@avnet.co.uk
> > > www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Larry Graves" <larry@aircraftersllc.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Realalistic airspeeds
> > >
> > >
> > > > Although not a tri-gear, nor turbocharged, there is an excellent
> > > performance
> > > > evaluation of Kim Prout's Europa Classic at the following URL,
> requiring
> > > > Adobe Acrobat to open and read:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.cafefoundation.org/aprs/Europa%20APR.pdf
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Larry Graves
> > > > AirCrafters Builder Assistance Center
> > > > 140 Aviation Way, Watsonville, CA 95076
> > > > Tel: 831-722-9141 Fax: 831-722-9142
> > > > Website: www.AirCraftersLLC.com
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Karp" <karp@montrose.net>
> > > > Subject: Realalistic airspeeds
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Everyone,
> > > > I am an experienced pilot who lives in the SW part of the United
> States.
> > > > I am very seriously looking at either Building or buying a completed
> > > Europa.
> > > > I am leaning towards the tri gear configuration.
> > > > I would prefer to use the turbo 914 version from Rotax, being that
> most
> > of
> > > > my flying would be around the mountains in the SW part of the US.
> > > >
> > > > If anyone on this list could give me some actual Airspeed and fuel
> > > > consumption numbers, other then the factory printed information, it
> > would
> > > be
> > > > greatly appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > > Stan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The Europa List is supported by Aviators Network UK -
info@avnet.co.uk
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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