Bob,=0AYou are correct a saddle tank type reserve will build up water in th
e bottom if you take no preventative actions, as you suggest water drain va
lves,(with the aircraft levelled to remove more water,-but I would sugges
t that the only way to know if the engine will run on that tank (filter / p
ipe/ valve position /pump combination) is to 1 ground run it (if new build
or restoration fuel flow tests on both sides of tank) then 2 at safe height
over a suitable airfield-change to reserve and run on reserve as a regul
ar check /flushing run on that side of the tank.=0AIf you find it difficult
to change-tanks with the standard fuel valve position, then consider the
benefits of-removing the valve and putting it where you can do it easily
.=0AAlso I would consider a Gascilator -valuable even if its primary purp
ose is as a water trap as you can not be sure to drain all the water all th
e time.=0AAlso we take pump samples at our airfield, on a daily basis which
are left to settle out water and contaminants (in glass Jam Jars) so fuel
quality is controlled (Look for globules in bottom of jar. =0ARather loose
some interior trim or other non essentials...=0A-=0AI hope these consider
ations will help, they are not original thinking , or rocket science, I hav
e also discussed with more than a few guys at the LAA show the need for tra
ined /automatic response to power loss (push instantly-forward on stick t
o an attitude that speed is maintained, and also plan for that eventuality
during cockpit checks, plan to land ahead until you have the height to turn
(Know what height you need to complete a turn),--the glider pilots amo
ngst you will recognise the BGA-training and pilot review-methods--
...used to reduce stall spin accidents on winch launching -found only poor
examples on u tube but helps to see results ...the second failure is a bit
low for comfort to do a 360..=0A-=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFT1
K1rQvHA=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqKrQ5uAbRg=0A-=0AKevin=0A-
=0A-=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Bob Harrison <pta
g.dev@tiscali.co.uk>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 1 Sep
tember 2013, 21:29=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters=0A =0A=0A--> E
uropa-List message posted by: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>=0A=0A
Hi! Raimo/all=0AYou make an interesting statement with regards to switching
to the reserve=0Atank and got a clean filter to start up with , however I
think you should=0Aremember that on a much used aircraft the filling system
always delivers=0A"the new shit " into the reserve side of the saddle tank
and with the best=0Awill in the world it is likely to always store water c
ontamination in a=0Agreater proportion than that on the main delivery side,
so don't expect that=0Athe reserve switch will always be your salvation!
- The water drain valves=0Aneed to be often tested on both sides . I did
away with the standard glass=0AEuropa issue filters and use TWO mini Andair
gascolator filters one for each=0Asaddle tank side.=0AAfter an overnight s
tay in pouring rain I took about half a litre of water=0Afrom the reserve d
rain valve which I believe went into the tank through the=0Alocking fuel ca
p so I try to tape up the entire filler cap when in rain .=0AThis incident
was at Zelam See (?and I don't think it was from their refuel=0Afacility bu
t who knows?=0ABest regards=0ABob Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 tot
al airframe hours in excess of=0A1000.=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFr
om: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio=0ASent: 01 September 2013 19:03
=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters
i>=0A=0ACarl and the rest of you who are interested in this topic,=0A=0AI d
id it also. I cleaned my tank very careful several times (I had heard=0Awar
nings!). I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel before=0Af
irst flight.=0A=0ADespite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full power d
uring cruise and my=0ARotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure went dow
n. Over mountaineous=0Aforest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous te
st pilot (google!). We=0Alooked each others and I elected to switch electri
c pump on AND changed to=0Areserve tank (and to another fuel filter also -
how genious is that fuel=0Asystem - there is always a clean filter waiting!
). That was an autonomious=0Areflex only. =0ARotax fired up immediately.=0A
=0AJyrki said later please never apply full power with a new construction o
r=0Aafter a major service if you are not above airfield! That makes sense.
=0AHe also said he is alive because after every service or repair he had ha
d a=0Ahabit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field before heading to som
ewhere.=0AHe had completed 9 forced landings and all over the runways, all
succesful=0Aand all because of service failure or service mistake. =0AThat
has happened during his career say 50 years.=0A=0AMy fuel filter was checke
d in lab. It was totally blocked by small particles=0Alooking gold but they
were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes. =0AMy guess was they (t
hose particles) were "glued" =0Ato the tank inside surfaces by static force
s.=0A=0AThat after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY flight. Flight by f
light it=0Aseemed to be cleaner and cleaner.=0A=0AToday I check my filters
say after every 10 hours - always clean.=0A=0AWhen refueling I have only tw
o alternatives:=0A=0A1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield. =0ASy
stems are aircraft quality, classified and certified, filtered and=0Awater-
isolated.=0A=0A2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol stations w a
s good brand as=0Apossible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc Funnel=B4s
debris /water=0Aisolator.=0A=0ASince that scary action 2007, I have had ne
ver any more fuel problems.=0A=0AI never clean my filters. I change them fo
r new ones once a year (after=0A50-100 hrs service).=0A=0AI do not use thos
e original puzzle filters w several parts and glass tube.=0A=0AOne was brok
en during towing action and one was broken by itself in the=0Ahangar.=0A=0A
I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway models - transparent - on
e=0Apiece - plastic non glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong way
-=0Acheap - unbreakable.=0A=0ASold? How many you want?=0A=0ACheers,=0A=0AR
aimo Toivio=0AFINLAND=0AOH-XRT=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Alkuper=E4ine
n viesti-----=0AFrom: Carl Pattinson=0ASent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:2
1 PM=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filte
freeserve.co.uk>=0A=0AHi All,=0A=0AI am surprised that anyone ever gets blo
cked =0Afilters after the initial=0Ashakedown. I know it is difficult to cl
ean out =0Atanks after build but it's=0Adefinitely worth pumping a few gall
ons of fuel =0Athrough the system before=0Aassuming everything is clean.=0A
=0AIf you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an =0Aissue that should be
=0Aaddressed first rather instead of relying on the =0Afuel filters to do t
heir=0Ajob. I accept that some of us have less control =0Aover what we put
in our=0Atanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel =0Aat the airfie
ld pumps).=0A=0AIn the early days I recall that clogged filters =0Awere an
issue for some=0Abuilders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by =0Alarg
e amounts of crud=0Awhich should never have been there in the first =0Aplac
e - I do not believe=0Athat changing the size of the filter mesh would =0Aa
ddress this particular=0Aissue.=0A=0APersonally I never liked the factory s
ystem and =0Aopted for a gascolator setup=0Ainstead - nothing fancy like an
Andair, just the =0Acheap kit builders one=0Aavailable from LAS or Aircraf
t Spruce (I priced =0Aone at the LAA yesterday and=0Athey are selling for
=A360) . The beauty of the =0Asetup is that any large lumps=0Aof crud (or w
ater) tend to settle in the bottom of =0Athe gascolator bowl and=0Awill be
drained off when you do your do your daily =0Afuel checks - very little=0Am
uck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the =0Abowl (this is a 120 micron
=0Ascreen).=0A=0AWe are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans =0Awhic
h we insist on=0Afiltering through a fine mesh funnel and we have =0Anever
found any signs of a=0Aclogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel
=0Acans generate their own=0Adebris as the internal paint on the cans tends
to =0Aflake off and if not=0Afiltered would cause problems if not pre filt
ered.=0A=0AFor those who have to rely on airfield based =0Asupplies if it s
hould be=0Apossible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon =0Amesh) which co
uld be dropped=0Adown the fuel filler opening to ensure the =0Acleanliness
of any external=0Asources of fuel. This could even be a permanent =0Ainstal
lation.=0A=0AAdditionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge =0Awhich would
give a visual=0Awarning- of low pressure due to a filter blockage.=0A=0A
Carl Pattinson=0AG-LABS=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-europ
a-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.co
m] On =0ABehalf Of Pete Lawless=0ASent: 01 September 2013 11:08=0ATo: europ
a-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Europa-List: Fuel filters=0A=0A--> Europa-L
ist message posted by: "Pete Lawless" =0A<pete@lawless.info>=0A=0AHi John
=0A=0AI have the original glass filters and am very =0Ahappy with them.-
In the first=0Afew hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and =0Amine ne
eded cleaning every=0A5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one =0Aoc
casion at about 10 hours=0Acaused fuel starvation on the climb out.- Then
=0Aless frequently cleaning=0Auntil the tank settled down at about 100 hou
rs. At =0A550 hours the filter now=0Aneed a clean about every 50 hours.=0A
=0AMy filters are installed under the seats protected =0Aby a Perspex cover
, as=0Aper the original Classic layout.- I inspect them =0ABEFORE EVERY F
LIGHT.- The=0Abeauty of the glass container is that you can see =0Awhat i
s going on, all that=0Ais needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look.
=0ACleaning is very easy=0Ayou just change the filter screen for a new one
=0Aand wipe the inside of the=0Aglass.=0A=0AI would be very reluctant to in
stall a filter unit =0AI could not inspect=0Awithout taking it to bits.=0A
=0APete=0AClassic #109 Rotax 912UL=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0A
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-se
rver@matronics.com] On =0ABehalf Of John Wighton=0ASent: 01 September 2013
09:23=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mai
l report of =0Afather and daughter fatality=0A=0A--> Europa-List message po
sted by: "John Wighton" =0A<john@wighton.net>=0A=0AThe photos taken in 2002
of the crashed aircraft =0Aare shocking and hopefully=0Anot an indicator o
f the condition she was in at =0Athe time of the accident.=0ABut l have to
say that if the level of neglect =0Aextended to the systems,=0Aespecially t
he fuel system, the cause of the =0Aincident may easily have been a=0Ablock
ed filter.- According to a close friend of =0ADavid, whom l spoke to=0Aye
sterday at the Rally,- the accident occurred at =0Afull power in the clim
b=0Aout after refuelling.- If so the classic case of =0Apower starvation
due to a=0Ablocked filer is a possible cause.- I note that =0Athe photos
show the inline=0Afilter used is the standard glass tube variety. =0ABlocka
ge of this type of=0Ainline filter has caused many incidents and at =0Aleas
t one written off Europa.=0A=0AAnalysing this filter shows it uses a 22 mic
ron =0Asized mesh.- This is way=0Asmaller than the 100 micron (largest) s
tipulated =0Aby Rotax.- I had a stoppage=0Adue to a blocked primary filte
r (same type) a few =0Ayears ago, this led to a=0Ahasty decent into Elstree
using the reserve feed =0A(thanks for the fire cover=0Aguys).- The filte
r was partially blocked with =0Atranslucent material.- It ran=0Aon the gr
ound but would not feed fuel to the =0Agoverened 5000 rpm of my AP332=0Acon
troller.=0A=0AHaving thereafter spent a year in a constant state =0Aof fuel
feed anxiety l=0Achanged them for Andair filters which have a 60 =0Amicron
filter size.- To date=0Athese have proven extremely reliable (100%).=0A
=0AIn 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a =0Aversion for 1/4in bore
fuel=0Alines could be made.- He said it was quite easy, =0Ajust a CNC pr
ogram change,=0Athe filters would then have a push-on nipple type =0Aend an
d not require screw=0Afit unions (as in my installation).- Some =0Adiscus
sion occurred with Andy=0ADraper about the mod.=0A=0AYesterday l checked wi
th Andair, he had not got =0Aaround to adapting the CNC=0Acode and hence no
thing had occurred at LAA =0AEngineering.=0A=0AIf it turns out that the cau
se of the stoppage on =0AGBXS was filter related=0A(this is speculative but
informed on my part) we =0Ashould support some action=0Awhich will lead to
changes in the use of these =0Astandard glass tube filters.=0AA possibilit
y for Europas could be a new filter, =0Aperhaps the Andair version.=0A=0A
=0AI shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the =0Acontinued use of t
he=0Aglass tube, 22. Micron filters.- If any Europa =0Aflyer, or other ai
rcraft=0Aoperator with the same filter type, can supply =0Ainformation rega
rding the use=0Aof these filters it may assist in deciding which =0Away to
go.- Information=0Asuch as frequency of inspection, frequency of =0Aclean
ing, stoppage or partial=0Ablockage info, leaks, other issues will br =0Agr
atefully received and treated=0Ain confidence. Likewise any info showing
=0Asatisfactory in service history is=0Aalso welcome. Please post info or e
mail direct to =0Ame.=0AJohn(dot)wighton@ultraflight.net=0A=0AJohn Wight
on=0AChief of Stress=0APilatus Aircraft=0A=0A--------=0AJohn Wighton=0AEuro
pa XS trigear G-IPOD=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp:/
/forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A--=0AThis message has been scanned for viruses and =0Adanger
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