Raimo
When you say "I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel
before first flight", was that done through the fuel filter? If yes, I
am curious why those particles were released during flight and not
during the flush. Could ie be vibration, or some other antistatic
effect during flight. May be an ionizing airgun can be used to release
stuck particles?
On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
>
> Carl and the rest of you who are interested in this topic,
>
> I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful several times (I had heard
> warnings!). I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel before
> first flight.
>
> Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full power during cruise and my
> Rotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure went down. Over mountaineous
> forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous test pilot (google!). We
> looked each others and I elected to switch electric pump on AND changed to
> reserve tank (and to another fuel filter also - how genious is that fuel
> system - there is always a clean filter waiting!). That was an autonomious
> reflex only. Rotax fired up immediately.
>
> Jyrki said later please never apply full power with a new construction or
> after a major service if you are not above airfield! That makes sense. He
> also said he is alive because after every service or repair he had had a
> habit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field before heading to somewhere.
> He had completed 9 forced landings and all over the runways, all succesful
> and all because of service failure or service mistake. That has happened
> during his career say 50 years.
>
> My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was totally blocked by small particles
> looking gold but they were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes. My
> guess was they (those particles) were "glued" to the tank inside surfaces by
> static forces.
>
> That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY flight. Flight by flight it
> seemed to be cleaner and cleaner.
>
> Today I check my filters say after every 10 hours - always clean.
>
> When refueling I have only two alternatives:
>
> 1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield. Systems are aircraft
> quality, classified and certified, filtered and water-isolated.
>
> 2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol stations w as good brand as
> possible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc Funnels debris /water
> isolator.
>
> Since that scary action 2007, I have had never any more fuel problems.
>
> I never clean my filters. I change them for new ones once a year (after
> 50-100 hrs service).
>
> I do not use those original puzzle filters w several parts and glass tube.
>
> One was broken during towing action and one was broken by itself in the
> hangar.
>
> I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway models - transparent - one
> piece - plastic non glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong way -
> cheap - unbreakable.
>
> Sold? How many you want?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Raimo Toivio
> FINLAND
> OH-XRT
>
>
> -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Carl Pattinson
> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters
>
>
> <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial
> shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but it's
> definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system before
> assuming everything is clean.
>
> If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be
> addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do their
> job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put in our
> tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps).
>
> In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some
> builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of crud
> which should never have been there in the first place - I do not believe
> that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this particular
> issue.
>
> Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator setup
> instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit builders one
> available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the LAA yesterday and
> they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the setup is that any large lumps
> of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and
> will be drained off when you do your do your daily fuel checks - very little
> muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the bowl (this is a 120 micron
> screen).
>
> We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on
> filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs of a
> clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate their own
> debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off and if not
> filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered.
>
> For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be
> possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon mesh) which could be dropped
> down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any external
> sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation.
>
> Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a visual
> warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage.
>
> Carl Pattinson
> G-LABS
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
> Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters
>
>
> Hi John
>
> I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the first
> few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed cleaning every
> 5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 hours
> caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently cleaning
> until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours the filter now
> need a clean about every 50 hours.
>
> My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, as
> per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The
> beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is going on, all that
> is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look. Cleaning is very easy
> you just change the filter screen for a new one and wipe the inside of the
> glass.
>
> I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect
> without taking it to bits.
>
> Pete
> Classic #109 Rotax 912UL
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Wighton
> Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality
>
>
> The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and hopefully
> not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident.
> But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems,
> especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have been a
> blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to
> yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power in the climb
> out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power starvation due to a
> blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the photos show the inline
> filter used is the standard glass tube variety. Blockage of this type of
> inline filter has caused many incidents and at least one written off Europa.
>
> Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way
> smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a stoppage
> due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a
> hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire cover
> guys). The filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It ran
> on the ground but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332
> controller.
>
> Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l
> changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To date
> these have proven extremely reliable (100%).
>
> In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel
> lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program change,
> the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require screw
> fit unions (as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy
> Draper about the mod.
>
> Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC
> code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering.
>
> If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related
> (this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some action
> which will lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube filters.
> A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair version.
>
>
> I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the
> glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft
> operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding the use
> of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information
> such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or partial
> blockage info, leaks, other issues will br gratefully received and treated
> in confidence. Likewise any info showing satisfactory in service history is
> also welcome. Please post info or email direct to me.
> John(dot)wighton@ultraflight.net
>
> John Wighton
> Chief of Stress
> Pilatus Aircraft
>
> --------
> John Wighton
> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837
>
>
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