Anrew,
you made a good question:
Yes - that was made through BOTH filters (150
liters /filter) and they remain totally clean.
Main reason they were clean was obviously that I
run fuel only by electric fuel pump ie. engine was
not running.
My purpose was to calibrate fuel gauge (electric
and visual), check the system and to clean it.
As we know, I did not succeeded. But I did during
that flight! After that - filters have been
*almost* clean after every change period one year
(=50-100 hrs).
Notice:
I had flown before that case 5 hours. I had used
more or less full power at least ten times x 5
minutes during every take-off. That main filter
was still clean from flight to flight until that
almost destiny flight. Thats a bit scary, isnt
it?
Why:
As you wrote, vibration, static effects and also
time, fuel itself, temperature changes etc affects
to the tank shit and its releasing time. Maybe
also full moon periods can do that. I am sure
Frans can imagine a lot more reasons for that.
How to avoid:
- clean more carefully.
- use your time.
- use different methods (ionizing could be that).
- check the tank by using boroscope with light.
- before first flight complete a lot full power
engine tests.
- when flying a test period say first 5 hours do
that only over your landing area.
- when using full power during your test phase say
first 10 hours do that only over your landing
area.
BTW - checked that lab report - that gold coloured
"material" which suddenly blocked my filter during
that flight - shit in the filter - was epoxbased.
Maybe it was somehow glued to the tank inside and
finally separated.
Cheers, Raimo
OH-XRT
-----Alkuperinen viesti-----
From: Andrew Sarangan
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 4:32 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters
<asarangan@gmail.com>
Raimo
When you say "I pumped through the system at least
300 liters of fuel
before first flight", was that done through the
fuel filter? If yes, I
am curious why those particles were released
during flight and not
during the flush. Could ie be vibration, or some
other antistatic
effect during flight. May be an ionizing airgun
can be used to release
stuck particles?
On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Raimo Toivio
<raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
> Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
>
> Carl and the rest of you who are interested in
> this topic,
>
> I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful
> several times (I had heard
> warnings!). I pumped through the system at least
> 300 liters of fuel before
> first flight.
>
> Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed
> full power during cruise and my
> Rotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure
> went down. Over mountaineous
> forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a
> famous test pilot (google!). We
> looked each others and I elected to switch
> electric pump on AND changed to
> reserve tank (and to another fuel filter also -
> how genious is that fuel
> system - there is always a clean filter
> waiting!). That was an autonomious
> reflex only. Rotax fired up immediately.
>
> Jyrki said later please never apply full power
> with a new construction or
> after a major service if you are not above
> airfield! That makes sense. He
> also said he is alive because after every
> service or repair he had had a
> habit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field
> before heading to somewhere.
> He had completed 9 forced landings and all over
> the runways, all succesful
> and all because of service failure or service
> mistake. That has happened
> during his career say 50 years.
>
> My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was
> totally blocked by small particles
> looking gold but they were identified to be shit
> from lay-upp processes. My
> guess was they (those particles) were "glued" to
> the tank inside surfaces by
> static forces.
>
> That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY
> flight. Flight by flight it
> seemed to be cleaner and cleaner.
>
> Today I check my filters say after every 10
> hours - always clean.
>
> When refueling I have only two alternatives:
>
> 1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield.
> Systems are aircraft
> quality, classified and certified, filtered and
> water-isolated.
>
> 2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol
> stations w as good brand as
> possible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc
> Funnels debris /water
> isolator.
>
> Since that scary action 2007, I have had never
> any more fuel problems.
>
> I never clean my filters. I change them for new
> ones once a year (after
> 50-100 hrs service).
>
> I do not use those original puzzle filters w
> several parts and glass tube.
>
> One was broken during towing action and one was
> broken by itself in the
> hangar.
>
> I use original Rotax filters - they are
> throwaway models - transparent - one
> piece - plastic non glass - you are not able to
> assemble them wrong way -
> cheap - unbreakable.
>
> Sold? How many you want?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Raimo Toivio
> FINLAND
> OH-XRT
>
>
> -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Carl
> Pattinson
> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters
>
>
> Pattinson"
> <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked
> filters after the initial
> shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out
> tanks after build but it's
> definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel
> through the system before
> assuming everything is clean.
>
> If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an
> issue that should be
> addressed first rather instead of relying on the
> fuel filters to do their
> job. I accept that some of us have less control
> over what we put in our
> tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing
> fuel at the airfield pumps).
>
> In the early days I recall that clogged filters
> were an issue for some
> builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed
> by large amounts of crud
> which should never have been there in the first
> place - I do not believe
> that changing the size of the filter mesh would
> address this particular
> issue.
>
> Personally I never liked the factory system and
> opted for a gascolator setup
> instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the
> cheap kit builders one
> available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced
> one at the LAA yesterday and
> they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the
> setup is that any large lumps
> of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom
> of the gascolator bowl and
> will be drained off when you do your do your
> daily fuel checks - very little
> muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the
> bowl (this is a 120 micron
> screen).
>
> We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from
> cans which we insist on
> filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have
> never found any signs of a
> clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal
> fuel cans generate their own
> debris as the internal paint on the cans tends
> to flake off and if not
> filtered would cause problems if not pre
> filtered.
>
> For those who have to rely on airfield based
> supplies if it should be
> possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon
> mesh) which could be dropped
> down the fuel filler opening to ensure the
> cleanliness of any external
> sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent
> installation.
>
> Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge
> which would give a visual
> warning of low pressure due to a filter
> blockage.
>
> Carl Pattinson
> G-LABS
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
> Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters
>
> Lawless" <pete@lawless.info>
>
> Hi John
>
> I have the original glass filters and am very
> happy with them. In the first
> few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked
> and mine needed cleaning every
> 5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one
> occasion at about 10 hours
> caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then
> less frequently cleaning
> until the tank settled down at about 100 hours.
> At 550 hours the filter now
> need a clean about every 50 hours.
>
> My filters are installed under the seats
> protected by a Perspex cover, as
> per the original Classic layout. I inspect them
> BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The
> beauty of the glass container is that you can
> see what is going on, all that
> is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and
> look. Cleaning is very easy
> you just change the filter screen for a new one
> and wipe the inside of the
> glass.
>
> I would be very reluctant to install a filter
> unit I could not inspect
> without taking it to bits.
>
> Pete
> Classic #109 Rotax 912UL
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of John Wighton
> Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of
> father and daughter fatality
>
> Wighton" <john@wighton.net>
>
> The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft
> are shocking and hopefully
> not an indicator of the condition she was in at
> the time of the accident.
> But l have to say that if the level of neglect
> extended to the systems,
> especially the fuel system, the cause of the
> incident may easily have been a
> blocked filter. According to a close friend of
> David, whom l spoke to
> yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred
> at full power in the climb
> out after refuelling. If so the classic case of
> power starvation due to a
> blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that
> the photos show the inline
> filter used is the standard glass tube variety.
> Blockage of this type of
> inline filter has caused many incidents and at
> least one written off Europa.
>
> Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron
> sized mesh. This is way
> smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated
> by Rotax. I had a stoppage
> due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a
> few years ago, this led to a
> hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed
> (thanks for the fire cover
> guys). The filter was partially blocked with
> translucent material. It ran
> on the ground but would not feed fuel to the
> goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332
> controller.
>
> Having thereafter spent a year in a constant
> state of fuel feed anxiety l
> changed them for Andair filters which have a 60
> micron filter size. To date
> these have proven extremely reliable (100%).
>
> In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a
> version for 1/4in bore fuel
> lines could be made. He said it was quite easy,
> just a CNC program change,
> the filters would then have a push-on nipple
> type end and not require screw
> fit unions (as in my installation). Some
> discussion occurred with Andy
> Draper about the mod.
>
> Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got
> around to adapting the CNC
> code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA
> Engineering.
>
> If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage
> on GBXS was filter related
> (this is speculative but informed on my part) we
> should support some action
> which will lead to changes in the use of these
> standard glass tube filters.
> A possibility for Europas could be a new filter,
> perhaps the Andair version.
>
>
> I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over
> the continued use of the
> glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa
> flyer, or other aircraft
> operator with the same filter type, can supply
> information regarding the use
> of these filters it may assist in deciding which
> way to go. Information
> such as frequency of inspection, frequency of
> cleaning, stoppage or partial
> blockage info, leaks, other issues will br
> gratefully received and treated
> in confidence. Likewise any info showing
> satisfactory in service history is
> also welcome. Please post info or email direct
> to me.
> John(dot)wighton@ultraflight.net
>
> John Wighton
> Chief of Stress
> Pilatus Aircraft
>
> --------
> John Wighton
> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837
>
>
> --
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