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Re: Europa-List: Tire /tyre landing incident /accident

Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tire /tyre landing incident /accident
From: Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 00:22:02

Hi Frans,

thanks for your thoughts - they are more or less a 
careful analysis (as your mails usually always 
are).

I will comment a bit between lines with *** :

-----Alkuperinen viesti----- 
From: Frans Veldman
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tire /tyre landing 
incident /accident

<frans@privatepilots.nl>

On 07/21/2011 04:49 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote:

> I purchased and got today a tyre *pre-puncture* 
> liquid from Netherlands.
> I have it 25 liter = about 6 gallons and I need 
> it only 0,25 liters.

Just a few thoughts:
1) It is available in 1/4 liters bottles as well, 
so you could have
saved quite some money.

*** They have 25 liters and 1 liters botles only. 
They sell also 1/4 liters "pump pushes direct from 
the canister" but no botles. As I wrote earlier, I 
do not fly to save money. 25 liters of that staff 
will go sooner or later. Maybe some day we will 
put 3x0,25 liter to your trike...

2) According to the website it is only for 
punctures in the thread, not
in the sidewalls. But if I remember correctly the 
sidewalls is where the
monowheels usually develop the leaks.

*** Correct, mostly for punctures in the thread. I 
have had four (4) tube punctures; two times in the 
sidewalls, two times in the threads. So, I counted 
it could prevent some puncture cases.

3) According to the website it is for slow moving 
vehicles only. But I
wouldn't exactly describe an Europa as a slow 
moving vehicle.

*** When taxiing my speed is around 20 knots. I 
feel it is quite slow. During typical flight I 
taxi about 2-4 km before dep and after arr using 
that (slow) speed via all kind of taxiways and 
grass and what so ever surface. During take off 
with "high speed" max 60 knots only let us say 200 
m and during landing another 200 m with "high" 
speed and using most cases high quality asphalt 
without sharp rocks, nails and other possible shit 
making punctures. 10% high speed, 90% low speed 
taxi. So...

4) They also say that it can be washed
away with water if you want to
repair the tire. I'm not sure what to think about 
this: Does it also
mean that when you fly through the rain the stuff 
dissolves? You might
not even know that you had a leak previously but 
suddenly the tire
empties and you are in for a surprise when you 
land on the wet runway.

***Come on! Those "slow moving vehicles" are 
moving also when raining. If the stuff dissolved 
when wet it would be totally unusefull! It cannot 
do that, not possible. When it fills the hole, it 
will not dissolve any more. They claim it will 
fill the hole diameter even 16 mm!

5) The stuff remains liquid inside the tire. 
During landing the wheel
accelerates in a very short time when the wheel 
makes initial contact
with the runway. The liquid stuff inside the tire 
has inertia and I'm
not sure what the effect will be. For sure it will 
have a lot of
friction for a short moment, and it may give a 
massive imbalance when it
has piled up on the bottom of the tire during 
flight and suddenly has to
rotate very fast, just like a washing machine that 
starts to hop when
the laundry piled up on one side. You might be the 
inventor of the
"self-bouncing monowheel". This imbalance may be 
the reason why it is
described as "for slow moving vehicles only".

*** That is something what I have wondered also. 
The radius of the tube is around 0,2 m. The mass 
of the stuff is around 0,3 kg. The max speed of 
the tire is about 60 knots = 31 m/s. That means 
the tyre is revolving about 1500 rpm = 25 r/s. But 
only a short moment. The stuff itself BTW is not 
so liquid, it is more or less like let us say 
micro slurry or it has a form of existence like 
porridge. That means it will be always more or 
less everywhere in the tube.

"Self-bouncing monowheel": I liked that much! Let 
us wish that effect will compensate so common 
"Pilot induced bouncing effect".

So, be careful here!

*** I promise!

You might want to add the stuff in stages and test
each stage with an actual landing to see how it 
behaves.

*** Good idea but I am too lazy to do that!

Also, what is the effect of temperature on that 
liquid stuff? Will it
become a jelly like lump inside the tire if it 
gets too cold? Maybe put
it overnight in a freezer and see what becomes of 
it.

***They claimed -40C but it is a good idea to put 
some of it to the freezer.

> Price: 550 euros /canister. As I wrote I am not 
> saveing when it is the
> question of my or my familys (flight) safety.

I fully agree but you should make sure you are not 
trading one risk for
another.

*** There are almost always double sides, blacks 
and whites. I have decided to do my everything to 
not suffer any more punctures. Maybe I will get 
other problems instead of that. That is my way to 
go anyway.

If this stuff really works one would expect that 
it would be
used already widely in the airplane industry.

***

Why not:

1) it is not certified for aviation use.
2) there are many let us say "good and well known 
safety manners or products" but they are not in 
use, from one reason or other. For example BRS and 
airbags really works but they are not widely used 
so far.
3) I had C172 more than 12 years and never tyre 
punctures. That problem is not so common 
obviously.
4) money, labour
5) large planes with many tires, loosing one is 
maybe a minor case.

***
I am almost sure the main problem is the tube 
brand name Deli and their low level production 
quality. It is so cheap that how it could be good?

Frans, please comment Rob Robsons ( Sales 
Manager - General Aviation Goodyear Aviation Tires 
Phone: 330.796.1596 Cell: 330.283.8704 
www.goodyearaviation.com ) idea below (that brand 
name is something I could trust):

1. Try a G15/6.00-6 tube with a TR-67 valve (which 
is a bent 90-deg valve).  The 7.00-6 tire is 
roughly 1 1/4" taller and 3/4" wider than a 6.00-6 
tire, so the tube will most likely stretch to fit.

Thanks, Raimo

BTW: tomorrow I will head to Utsjoki, which is 
practically northernmost point in Finland and 
about 370 km north from Polar Circle. I will fly 
daughter Tuuli. Wish us safe landings with a full 
tube! I have no spare tube with me, the shipment 
was unfortunately late.

We will met Jos (you remember) in Ivalo. May I 
tell wishes for him from all of you?

Raimo OH-XRT Finland


Frans

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