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Re: Europa-List: Re: Effects of Flaps and Ailerons on Pitch Trim

Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Effects of Flaps and Ailerons on Pitch Trim
From: Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 01:14:04

Frans

and all those million people who might be 
interested about this topic and follow it:

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Frans Veldman" <frans@privatepilots.nl>
Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Effects of Flaps and 
Ailerons on Pitch Trim

> This is a compliment to the factory as I got the 
> "accelerated kit" with
> the tailplanes built by the factory.

Yes, I called them NG (next generation) tailplanes 
without bluefoam structure inside.

> The balance of the tailplane and anti servo tabs 
> is not purely
> aerodynamic, it is the result of all forces 
> acting upon the system:
>
> 1) If the pilot pulls or pushes on the stick, 
> the tailplane will rotate,
> the anti servo tabs rotate even further, and 
> this imbalance is countered
> against the force the pilot is exercising. This 
> means we have a stable
> position here with the anti servo tabs pushing 
> the system some way, and
> the pilot pushing it the other way. The trim 
> tabs stay deflected then,
> because they provide the counter force to null 
> out the pilots unconsious
> input.
>
> 2) If the tailplane is not weight balanced 
> correctly, it has a tendency
> to rotate by itself, and the anti servo tabs 
> need to balance this
> tendency out. Again we get a situation where 
> weight is trying to get the
> tailplane rotating this way, and the anti servo 
> tabs trying to undo
> this. There is a balance, but this balance is 
> not with the anti servo
> tabs lined out behind the tailplane.

Frans, may I add a third influence in your list? 
How about that, could we consider also it (please 
notice, this is *not* a statement):

3) The friction in the pitch system. I remember 
some builders had some difficulties with 
unnecessary friction with the roll/pitch control 
system in the cockpit modul (that was not a NG 
cockpit modul!).
Anyway, if there is more or less too much friction 
in the pitch /tailplane control, I assume that is 
a force which will also keep the trim tabs 
deflected and pilot thinks "this plane is well 
trimmed" and it is not!

This is quoted from Sport Aviation, vol 59 No 5 
May 2010, page 53 /Ravin 500 (an experimental from 
South-Africa which is a look-a-like Piper 
Comanche):

" Starting at 195 mph, the airplane will maintain 
any speed between 195 and 220 mph hands free, 
because friction holds the elevator at the 
deflection required. But, keep in mind friction 
causes a band of hands-free trim speeds. So, the 
25-mph trim speed band could span 195 to 220 mph 
or 170 to 195 or anything between, like 181 to 
206. "

Interesting: "band of trim speeds".

> So, in both situations, you won't get the anti 
> servo tabs to line up
> with the tailplane.
>
> What can go wrong:
> 1) The pilot. When I was learning to fly, the 
> instructor had a habit of
> ripping my hands of the yoke, which immediately 
> revealed whether I had
> trimmed the airplane incorrectly. Often I was 
> sure I had trimmed
> correctly, but apparently it is easy to 
> unconciously exercise a force
> upon the yoke or stick. So as a student I 
> quickly developed the habit to
> "let go of the stick" after trimming to make 
> sure it is really trimmed
> and get the tension of my muscles out of the 
> equation.
> Maybe everyone does this, maybe not. Anyway, 
> keep this in mind: with the
> Europa design you can possible gain a few knots 
> by making sure the
> tailplane is perfectly trimmed for the intended 
> speed: let go of that stick!

My habit: when levelled and cruising - I do not 
touch the stick at all. When necessary, I only use 
my panel attached low speed (adjustable) trimming 
ability to control and maintain the desired 
altitude.
In the rough air, I of course keep the stick 
between my thumb and a fore finger.
>
> 2) The mass balance weight. As said before, I 
> got through the hassle to
> disconnect the pitch tube to really balance out 
> the tailplane. Still
> then, it is difficult to balance it with the 
> frictions and inertia
> involved. When I thought by moving the trailing 
> edge of the tailplane up
> and down that the system was in balance, I 
> double checked with an
> elastic band... and discovered that humans are 
> not able to compare a
> lifting force against a pushing force very well.
> So, tape an elastic band to the trailing edge, 
> put a mark somewhere, and
> start pulling the trailing edge up or down. 
> Measure the distance between
> the mark and the trailing edge with a ruler, 
> exactly at the moment the
> tailplane actually starts moving. Do this also 
> the other way. Goal is to
> have the trailing edge moving with the same 
> stretch of the elastic band
> pulling up and pulling down.

Well Frans, that was nice.

I left those rubber bands for boys with model 
aeroplanes and did it with electric lightfish 
scale until I was happy enough. You know, fighting 
against grams and redoing it many many times.
Btw I used same equipment (as per manual!) to 
calibrate the spring force in the trimming motor 
system.

(Lifting and pushing - how about pushing and 
pulling when the entire plane is in the vertical 
position. OK - that was not in this world.)
>
> If you are flying around with the anti servo 
> tabs deflected upwards, it
> could mean the mass balance weights are a tad 
> too heavy, or the pilot is
> unconsiously pulling on the stick. The weight of 
> the pilot's arm is
> enough to disturb the delicate balance.

Or + there is some friction and they just happen 
to be so or the tailplanes are not "perfectly 
aerodynamically balanced" = they are not NG 
tailplanes = the builder has made them by 
her/himself from foam or the combinaton of at 
least those mentioned four factors.

Maybe there are even more factors (which will 
cause The Symptom "deflected trim tabs when 
trimmed" (that is: pilot thinks I am trimmed!).

>
> If you are sure both of these are really ok, 
> then there is a last
> resort: You could connect a spring or bungee to 
> the pitch push rod, and
> "preload" it in the correct direction. This is 
> however where my
> understanding of the system ends: I'm not sure 
> if this could induce
> flutter. Then again, it is not different than a 
> pilot unconsiously
> pushing or pulling on the stick, and the system 
> seems to cope with that
> very well. This corrective bungee gets into the 
> equation and can get the
> balance so that the anti servo tabs line up 
> behind the tailplane, and
> this could gain you a few knots.

OK. If there is no pilot hand in the system and 
they really *are* perfectly balanced by weight, 
what is still left:
Unbalancing by aerodynamically and those possible 
friction forces.

Just now - please correct me and I am sure you 
will do it if necessary - by preloading (with a 
spring or bungee) the system you can take out only 
unbalancing which is by aerodynamic.
Please remember - no pilot hand and no errors in 
balancing by weight. So, almost all the "foam 
tailplane Europas" ( except Mr Paul McAllisters ) 
will need a bungee or  spring to the system 
because they cannot be "perfect" because of the 
builder variations (and a poor manual when 
designing the shape of the tailplanes!).

>
> I had it all worked out, assuming that ALL 
> Europa's had this deflected
> trim tab defect... and then discovered that my 
> Europa doesn't need it at
> all. :-)
>

That is no wonder: you have made it (and bought NG 
tail planes).

***

An idea: how to fly formation with some Europa 
with "the deflected trim tabs syndrom" with normal 
cruising speed. With an advice and instructions by 
radio the Europa pilot will trim, keep levelled 
same time AND push or pull the stick until they 
are in-lined. Heureka we have found the necessary 
force for trim tabs & tailplanes in-lining  . Add 
the spring or bungee with that force and you have 
gained some knots, congratulations!

***

>> Frans - next time I will consider a bit more 
>> before I think you are wrong.
>> You are wrong probably very seldom, I assume.
>
> Well, I wouldn't guarantee that. In fact, I just 
> keep my mouth shut if I
> do not have a strong feeling that I'm right. ;-)

That is a *good* lesson for me. But, actually I 
was sure!!!

Infact - Frans - I almost asked you "why in the 
hell we have that trimming ability at all if they 
are always in-lined with tailplanes"!
It was absolutely "The New World" to understand 
the meaning of the "Aerodynamically Balanced".

As you well remember - me and *some* other boys 
---From Z (this is for You Mr. XXXXstrip) and from 
other countries - I was sure there will be forces 
without any extra forces by 
anti-deflections-ability.
That means (if it would be so) Europa could be 
flyable without tabs at all.
But I assume it is not (without 
anti-servo-system).

I wrote I do not like this!

In the other hand: if the pilot happen to 
understand what means sudden feeling "I have not 
at all pitch forces" (=that is I have maybe lost 
my tabs or anti-servo-function-ability or I have 
not at all a pitch control via stick).

1) if the tabs or the anti-servo-function has 
gone, you have still a pitch control but no forces 
at all in the stick. Take it very easy. Could I 
fly in that case? Must be awful!
2) if the control tube has disconnected (and you 
still have tailplanes) pilot can control pitch by 
operational trim tabs. Landing, well...maybe 
possible to walk away from crashed plane, is it?

As I wrote - I will respect and check my trim tabs 
more than carefully. I really did not know they 
have so important role in that Europa came.

Quite a lot of other
> people had the same knowledge about the 
> tailplane, but most of them
> didn't bother to convince the rest of us. I was 
> prepared to leave it as
> well, but your Donald Duck thing was just too 
> provocative. ;-)

OK, so that (DD) was worth of it. Please remember 
there are many people just monitoring this list. 
Maybe this discussion gave the light for some 
other people also. I think DD was not alone!

Frans, thank you once more (and please comment!).

Raimo aka DD

OH-XRT Europa #417 (with the foam tailplanes and 
trim tabs (just slightly) deflected) !!!



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