And thats exactly what happened when my regulator failed, The only
unanswered question is why do these failures happen when there is 70 miles
of sea to cross.
I have to thank the Europa club people who helped me when this happened,
thanks guys
Tim
On 7 April 2014 22:35, David Joyce <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> wrote:
> davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
>
> Dave, For what it is worth when my standard Europa supplied & wired
> rectifier failed, (over the Channel!), the only thing that happened was
> that the ammeter showed discharge directly related to how many bits of kit
> I left switched on. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>
> Nigel Graham <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
>>
>> Dave,
>>
>> The unit is a combination of rectifier and regulator. The issues you
>> experience will depend on which component in which part of the circuit
>> fails.
>> There are (as far as I can identify - though I'm sure better qualified
>> contributors will correct me if I'm wrong) three modes of failure.
>> If you are really lucky, it will fail open-circuit, in which case
>> everything continues to work fine but your battery discharges. The ammeter
>> will show a discharge.
>> If you're not so lucky, the regulator fails and sends unregulated DC to
>> your battery. This will eventually boil dry, get very hot and may distort
>> and if no over-voltage protection is fitted, take out your avionics.
>> If you're really unlucky and the rectifier section fails, this can squirt
>> unrectified AC into the main bus and kill just about everything except your
>> ignition.
>> Which CB breaks depends entirely on how your aircraft was wired up and it
>> is these failure modes that have caused such spirited debate when
>> discussing "the right way" to wire up a panel.
>>
>> Nigel
>>
>> On 07/04/2014 18:13, david park wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Nigel,
>>> Would i be correct, in the event of regulator failure, i am going to see?
>>> 1.over/under voltage on volt meter ?
>>> 2.main cb break?
>>> 3.Ameter indication - discharge?
>>>
>>> Action - switch off alternator? And any unnecessary drain on battery.
>>> Dave Park
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7 Apr 2014, at 15:24, Nigel Graham <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
>>>>
>>>> This is an interesting discussion.
>>>> If the aircraft wiring has been well designed and installed and if the
>>>> correctly rated breaker (or fuse) has been installed to protect the desired
>>>> equipment, then it is surely reasonable to suppose that the only time the
>>>> breaker would pop, or the fuse blow, is if something has failed. No amount
>>>> of in-flight fiddling is going to repair a shorted or broken wire, nor
>>>> replace a failed capacitor, resistor or semiconductor (dare I mention
>>>> Rotax/Ducati Regulator? ..... best not perhaps).
>>>> Re-setting a popped breaker without identifying why it popped is surely
>>>> asking for trouble. Do you wait for the first signs of smoke before
>>>> finally getting the message?
>>>>
>>>> The only thing a pilot can do is recognise that a particular service
>>>> has gone down and, depending on flight criticality, divert or continue.
>>>> The only time to investigate the problem will be when you are safely
>>>> down as the cause will almost invariably be in an inaccessible place.
>>>>
>>>> Popped breakers are easy to spot, but fuses are not immediately obvious
>>>> - unless you have chosen the ones that Rowland has used which incorporate
a
>>>> "failure" LED.
>>>> This does of course require them to be mounted where you can see them
>>>> .......which brings us back to the OP.
>>>>
>>>> Nigel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 07/04/2014 13:42, David Joyce wrote:
>>>>> davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rowland, I don't dispute the electrical safety. It is just the
>>>>> distraction of having to dig around to make a diagnosis and alter any
>>>>> circuitry rather than having it plain obvious, right under your nose. I am
>>>>> strongly of the opinion that anything that increases the
>>>>> workload/distraction factor in an emergency is a thoroughly bad thing and
>>>>> leads to a lot of stall/spin deaths.
>>>>> Regards, David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> rowlandcarson@gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7 Apr 2014, at 11:03, Brian Davies wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You make a very good point. The only electrical incident I have
>>>>>>> experienced on my aircraft was a generator overvolt trip just after
>>>>>>> coasting out over the Channel. After a careful check and a reset of the
>>>>>>> circuit breaker I was able to proceed without any drama. The
>>>>>>> alternative,
>>>>>>> with a fuse not readily accessible, would have been a turn back to the
>>>>>>> airfield/refiling flight plan, revised GAR arrival time etc. etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The safety aspects are even more important..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>>>>>>> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce
>>>>>>> Sent: 07 April 2014 10:16
>>>>>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Parcel Shelf tray door access for fuses,
>>>>>>> CBS
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tony & Rowland, I have a slightly different philosophical approach
>>>>>>> to this question. A fuse may well go as part of some in air failure just
>>>>>>> possibly accompanied by fire or smoke. Time spent working out what is
>>>>>>> happening threatens your safety. As with an engine failure serious
>>>>>>> distraction and stress can lead to speed decay and a stall/spin
>>>>>>> accident.
>>>>>>> So I prefer my fusing system to be out where it is immediately obvious
what
>>>>>>> has blown and for this reason I recommend switchable circuit breakers,
all
>>>>>>> labelled and readily visible. They have the added benefit of readily
>>>>>>> allowing switching off of circuits to deal with emergencies such as
>>>>>>> regulator failure. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> David, Brian - thanks for your comments. I've tried to do simple
>>>>>> Failure Mode & Effects Analysis (FMEA) on both types of circuit
>>>>>> protection
>>>>>> remembering that I'll be trying to fly the aeroplane at the same time. My
>>>>>> planned "mission profile" is such that a failure of any single electrical
>>>>>> item should not compromise flight safety, and in this I agree with Bob
>>>>>> Nucknolls, who has a lot more experience than me in aircraft electrics.
>>>>>> (With 32 years' professional experience in electronic research I feel I
>>>>>> also know a bit about the "electrics" aspect if not the "aircraft"
>>>>>> aspect.)
>>>>>> See the following postings:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/fuseorcb.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/fusvsbkr.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/fusvbkr2.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You'll see there are strong arguments (& feelings!) on both sides. I
>>>>>> can only say in the light of my own knowledge that I took time over my
>>>>>> choice and feel comfortable with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in friendship
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rowland
>>>>>>
>>>>>> | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
>>>>>> | <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
>>>>>> | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
>>>>>> | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> Admin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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