-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Davies [mailto:brian.davies@clara.co.uk]
Sent: 14 October 2013 16:33
Subject: RE: IMC training in Europa [was: Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub
Panels....thanks]
LAA Technical Leaflet 2.09 says
Initial Licence or Rating
2. An owner may receive remunerated (or un-remunerated) flight training
towards an initial licence or rating in his own LAA aircraft provided he is
a 'sole' owner and not part of a group ownership. (Direct family members of
the owner's immediate family are also acceptable).
3. The solo part of the PPL syllabus can be carried out in a single seat LAA
aircraft as long as the aircraft is similar to that being used for dual
instruction, is suitably equipped, and the instructor is satisfied that it
is compatible with accepted flight training practices.
4. 'Simulated' instrument training as required by the PPL syllabus, and
training towards the IMC or IR(R) rating is acceptable in a LAA aircraft
provided it is suitably equipped.
5. Examination, as required by the PPL syllabus, may be carried out in a LAA
aircraft, but only if un-remunerated. The aircraft must also be suitably
equipped.
In order to get a further interpretation of this situation I have asked Jon
Cooke the Chairman of the LAA Pilot Coaching scheme to comment further. I
will post his reply as soon as it arrives.
Brian Davies
LAA board member
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rowland Carson
Sent: 14 October 2013 15:02
Subject: IMC training in Europa [was: Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub
Panels....thanks]
--> <rowlandcarson@gmail.com>
On 14 Oct 2013, at 11:07, Alan Burrill wrote:
> I suggest people read AIC W 001/2011 and specifically para 4.4.2 which
related to the subject under discussion.
>
> Cannot post an extract on my phone.
You can see all the AICs at:
http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blo
gcategory&id=159&Itemid=56.html
and can choose W 001/2011 from the 2011 section.
Here's the bit that Alan refers to pasted in:
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
4.4 Operating under a Permit to Fly
4.4.1 A General Exemption (ORS4 No. 802) and a Permission (ORS4 No. 803)
have been issued to allow owners of a jointly-owned private aircraft
operating under a Permit to Fly to pay for instruction in their aircraft
with the following conditions and limitations:
a. The exemption does not apply to gyroplanes or ex-military aircraft.
b. The person undergoing the training must hold a licence that entitles them
to act as pilot in command of the aircraft or would entitle them except that
they need to fly with an instructor to obtain a Certificate of Test,
Experience or Revalidation and the purpose of the flight is to gain such a
certificate.
c. The aircraft must be owned or operated by or under arrangements entered
into with a flying club, of which the person giving the instruction and the
person receiving the instruction are both members.
4.4.2 Therefore, owners of jointly owned non-EASA aircraft operating under a
Permit to Fly can pay for training in their aircraft provided that the
conditions in paragraph 4.4.1 have been met.
Note: Training for the initial issue of an NPPL, PPL, CPL, IMC Rating,
Instrument Rating or other 'ab initio' training is not permitted. The
intention is to allow individuals to pay for training that enables them to
regain currency, renew a licence, learn a new skill (such as short field
landings) or become familiar with a new type etc.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
So, yes, in the UK you can have and pay for instruction in your group-owned
Europa, but NOT for a new licence or rating. Thus IF it was a jointly-owned
machine, the advice to another poster not to tell the CAA that he trained
for his IMC in a Europa would appear to be wise, if he doesn't want the book
thrown at him and probably lose his rating.
However, section 4.4 applies only to jointly-owned permit types. The section
for sole ownership is slightly different and does not exclude training for
initial issue of a licence or rating.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
3 Solely-owned non-EASA Aircraft
3.1 Article 259(2) of the Air Navigation Order (ANO) 2009 states that 'If
the only such valuable consideration consists of remuneration for the
services of the pilot, the flight is deemed to be a private flight for the
purposes of Part 3 and Part 4'.
3.2 The result of this is that a person who owns an aircraft outright and
does not have to pay for anything else in relation to the flight is
permitted to pay an instructor for training in their private aircraft.
Likewise, a person who has free use of an aircraft is also permitted to pay
an instructor for training in the aircraft, although this situation usually
only arises when a close friend or member of the owner's family wishes to
use the aircraft.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
The difference in the rules between joint and sole ownership is also made
clear in the flowchart at Appendix A of the document, where no conditions
are applied to training in sole-owned permit machines.
I can see that there is some opportunity for confusion, but it appears that
everyone who expressed an opinion on this topic was correct to some degree!
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
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