On 14 Oct 2013, at 11:07, Alan Burrill wrote:
> I suggest people read AIC W 001/2011 and specifically para 4.4.2 which related
to the subject under discussion.
>
> Cannot post an extract on my phone.
You can see all the AICs at:
http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=159&Itemid=56.html
and can choose W 001/2011 from the 2011 section.
Here's the bit that Alan refers to pasted in:
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
4.4 Operating under a Permit to Fly
4.4.1 A General Exemption (ORS4 No. 802) and a Permission (ORS4 No. 803) have
been
issued to allow owners of a jointly-owned private aircraft operating under
a Permit to Fly to pay for instruction in their aircraft with the following
conditions
and limitations:
a. The exemption does not apply to gyroplanes or ex-military aircraft.
b. The person undergoing the training must hold a licence that entitles them to
act as pilot in command of the aircraft or would entitle them except that they
need to fly with an instructor to obtain a Certificate of Test, Experience or
Revalidation and the purpose of the flight is to gain such a certificate.
c. The aircraft must be owned or operated by or under arrangements entered into
with a flying club, of which the person giving the instruction and the person
receiving the instruction are both members.
4.4.2 Therefore, owners of jointly owned non-EASA aircraft operating under a
Permit
to Fly can pay for training in their aircraft provided that the conditions
in paragraph 4.4.1 have been met.
Note: Training for the initial issue of an NPPL, PPL, CPL, IMC Rating,
Instrument
Rating or other 'ab initio' training is not permitted. The intention is to
allow individuals to pay for training that enables them to regain currency,
renew
a licence, learn a new skill (such as short field landings) or become familiar
with a new type etc.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
So, yes, in the UK you can have and pay for instruction in your group-owned
Europa,
but NOT for a new licence or rating. Thus IF it was a jointly-owned machine,
the advice to another poster not to tell the CAA that he trained for his IMC
in a Europa would appear to be wise, if he doesn't want the book thrown at
him and probably lose his rating.
However, section 4.4 applies only to jointly-owned permit types. The section for
sole ownership is slightly different and does not exclude training for initial
issue of a licence or rating.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
3 Solely-owned non-EASA Aircraft
3.1 Article 259(2) of the Air Navigation Order (ANO) 2009 states that 'If the
only
such valuable consideration consists of remuneration for the services of the
pilot, the flight is deemed to be a private flight for the purposes of Part
3 and Part 4'.
3.2 The result of this is that a person who owns an aircraft outright and does
not have to pay for anything else in relation to the flight is permitted to pay
an instructor for training in their private aircraft. Likewise, a person who
has free use of an aircraft is also permitted to pay an instructor for training
in the aircraft, although this situation usually only arises when a close friend
or member of the owner's family wishes to use the aircraft.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
The difference in the rules between joint and sole ownership is also made clear
in the flowchart at Appendix A of the document, where no conditions are applied
to training in sole-owned permit machines.
I can see that there is some opportunity for confusion, but it appears that
everyone
who expressed an opinion on this topic was correct to some degree!
in friendship
Rowland
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