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Re: Europa-List: engine surging

Subject: Re: Europa-List: engine surging
From: Herve <hervechaussures@tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 10:25:12
Hi Ken
I did have the same problem with my 914,and the cause for me was the 
2 inches rubber pipe from the cab to the air box to the turbo became 
loose .check them!!!
Regards
Herve G.CHET

t 02:29 13/10/2008, you wrote:
>I have some follow-up on the surging problem.  Turning off the TCU 
>does not help anything.  In fact, the engine seems to surge and be a 
>little rougher.  I have checked the plugs which were new two hours 
>ago.  The air filter has no effect on the problem.  I have checked 
>the tubing, it is six years old, but looks to be in good condition 
>and no cracks...course you can't see the underside of a lot of the 
>tubing.  The surging varies.  I ran it yesterday and it did not 
>surge at all...manifold pressure up to 38 and it seemed to be 
>cured.  Then today I ran it again and the surging was back.  The 
>surging is over a range from 5000 down to 2000.  Someone was of the 
>opinion that it was almost like the engine was being turned off and 
>as the RPM dropped, being turned back on.  Since the problem occurs 
>only at the higher throttle settings, I had assumed it could not be 
>the electrical system.  The engine does diesel some when t urned 
>off.  It has done that for a year or so.  I usually turn off the 
>fuel pumps first and when the pressure drops, then turn off the 
>ignition.  The dieseling is worse if the enginie is hot...like up at 
>200 degrees or so.  The surging is less severe when the engine is 
>hot...up in the 200 range, and worse with the engine temp at 130.
>I am leary of the carbs but it sounds like I will have to tackle 
>them if no one comes up with an alternate idea.  No one around 
>Knoxville has experience with a Rotax.  I asked our AI if he knew 
>anything about Rotax engines and he said, "Heck, I can't even spell 
>it!"   The intermittant nature of the surging has added to the 
>frustration.  I can't see anything being done to the engine that 
>makes it behave different.  I have the same gas(half auto high 
>test  and half 100LL) in the plane that was in there when I did two 
>flights before the surging started.  The mag check is 
>normal.  Running both fuel pumps increases the pressure reading but 
>does not change the surging.  It did not surge for 500 hours running 
>on one pump.   Thanks for the ideas thus far.
>Ken Carpenter
>-------------- Original message --------------
>From: "ALAN YERLY" <budyerly@msn.com>
>Guys,  Here is my one and a half cents.
>
>When working with Jerry Hope's 914 we found that the reset switch 
>was all that was necessary to cure the surging...  That is always my 
>first in-flight correction.  For my older engine, the wiper on the 
>pot in the turbo servo wore out with time and the servo began to 
>hunt.  By hitting the reset switch, it momentarily cuts the power 
>and stabilizes the manifold/boost and the servo related surge/boost 
>fluctuations stop.
>
>As for the carb related problems,  With the engine at idle, servo 
>locked out (reset switch held to eliminate the servo from 
>operating), run the engine up until you see about 35-39 inches of 
>MP.  If the engine does not surge, it is not the carbs.  If you have 
>the dual manometers, and can watch the MP on each carb, that will 
>tell you volumes about your carb health.  If one of the altitude 
>compensators is hanging up, the engine will sag, calling for more 
>boost, then the engine boost clears the carb balance problem, but 
>that causes a momentary over boost which then causes the servo to 
>cut boost, which then causes the carbs to be out of balance 
>again.  In this case you will see it in the twin manometers and a 
>carb rebuild kit for $45 will fix you up.  The carbs on a 914 take 
>about 2 hours to get on and off, and 1 hour to replace the seals in 
>the carbs.  Then you get to retune the throttles.  Pay attention to 
>the posit ion of the needle valve slide clip during the rebuild.  If 
>you get one position off, you will be running richer or leaner than 
>normal.  Bing has troubleshooting manual on the web and Rotax has 
>the carb balancing video you can order, so check it out.
>
>If your throttle position sensor is worn, that too can cause the 
>computer to force the engine into a surge on the older slower 
>computer processor.  The program sold by Rotax can check the position sensor.
>
>For low boost, or leaks, wow, that's a new one on me.  I don't get 
>to fly that high so I have no experience.  My low boost problems is 
>because I don't set the cable right on the servo or the cable slips.
>
>Rich Schultz found with running on AV Gas, his carbs stayed in tune 
>if he added just a bit of Marvel Mystery Oil to his gas to lube his 
>carb.  His problems cleared up.
>
>Bud
>Custom Flight Creations
>(813) 653-4989
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>Paul McAllister
>To: <mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>europa-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:20 PM
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: engine surging
>
><<mailto:paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
>
>Hi Folks,
>
>Could I offer a contrary view?  I got to 600 hours on my 914 with no
>sign off issues wih the carbs, but on the adivce of many I sent my
>carbs into Lockwood to have them overhauled.  What a mistake,  the
>airplane now uses .3 to .4 more gallons per hour than before and it
>took me 4 tries to get the inlet system sealed up again so I could get
>maximum boost.
>
>Actually it still is not right, I can only get 27 inches and 16k feet
>and I should be able to get 34" so the darn thong is still leaking.
>
>With that said, it may well be your carbs, but the first place I would
>go is fuel filters, then look at the fuel pressure (needs to be
>measured differentially), then onto the turbo waste gate.  What you
>will need to do is
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>Checked by AVG.
>10/12/2008 12:00 PM
>


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