----- Original Message -----
From: "Neville Eyre" <Neville@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber)
> I spent 29 years in the boat trade, and have more than a little experience
with painting / gelcoat in a far more harsh environment than most aircraft
will ever see.
> A gelcoat finish will always be heavier than a properly executed
expancell / eurathane paint finnish, the gel is a very dense material.
> The adhesion of the polyester gel to the epoxy skins is weaker than
staying with epoxy all the way through, this can be proven easilly by making
test samples for both systems, and bending them until one of them parts, it
will be the gel that comes off first every time.
> Most gel coats have enough UV barrier to keep the pigments in the gel from
fading [ this is also true of cheaper eurathanes ], they do not protect the
substrate.
> Back in 1976, I painted a test piece with International Paints Perfection
709,[ the leading yacht eurathane at the time ] and mounted it on a south
facing slopeing roof. It was still there last year when I visited my old
colleages, still looks as good now as the day I put it up there ! That is 26
years ago ! Gelcoats will need constant pollishing to keep them shiny.
> The newer family of 2 pack eurathanes are even better in this respect,
exept for the water reduced types which do not have the same performance as
the good ''old cyanide'' types.
> Precautions must be taken when spraying the cyanide types, a full overall
and an air fed mask, not a big deal, go with the eurathane.
> Methinks someone is touting for work ?
> Happy building / painting !
> Nev.
>
Hello Neville,
Do you have any relevant and useful experience with quality specialist
aircraft Gelcoat to share with us?
Harsh environment is definitely the problem which we are addressing
especially in our U.K. climate as most of the Long/Vari eze builders soon
found out when using the Rutan recommended paint scheme.Poly-Fiber now know
of the problem too.
You may not be aware that gliders can go as high as 36,500 feet even in
Britain, I myself have been to 22000 ft in a glider and have yet to see a
boat up there!
The temperature up there is about -50 degrees Celsius and any moisture
absorbed lower down will expand whilst freezing attempting to blow the
surface coating off in peel, the worst design case for any coating. Are you
suggesting that gelcoat is what the snowflakes consist of in Aberdeen
downwind of Aboyne, N.Europe's premier wave soaring site?.
Gelcoat heavy ? only if you deliberately ignore the fact that half what you
put on comes off in the blockdown process. Gliders are all epoxy structures
and need to climb quickly as well, especially in the sort of hot air found
in
North Yorkshire.
I bet the majority of Europa Owners would just love to see the primary
aircraft structure properly finished in a thin veneer of specialist
composite aviation white gelcoat. After all, the doors and cowlings are
already gelcoat albeit in grey (which somewhat defeats the object), and to a
very acceptable standard. Why do you wish to knock the first good step
towards the use of Gelcoat by the Europa company?
All my aeroplanes other than the 4 gliders are painted. They include my
Europa, Quickie and now Rutan Defiant. If commercial interest was my
motivation for offering advice, why would I be potentially undermining the
value of my own aircraft by banging on about the truth as I see it?
.
This forum is for Europa owners to exchange ideas and tips on the routes
available to creating the best. Some of us even have specialist relevant
knowledge. Even the Europa factory crew must recognise that it does not hold
a monopoly on good ideas. I am pleased to see that you are listening if not
yet hearing. I am also sympathetic to the need to sell kits and the choice
the builder is offered to simply pop down to his local car spray shop to get
his aircraft painted. That can sometimes lead to a less than desirable
outcome and be heavy since weight is not an issue to the car sprayer ,but if
no alternatives are offered, he will be mislead into thinking that that was
his only choice and the loss will be jointly shared by the Europa brand
as well as the builder if it does not turn out to be successful.
It is surely in your own interest to stop calling black white and allow
builders the option to strive for the best even if you are unable or
unwilling to provide it yourselves.
Best Regards
Gary McKirdy.
Gary McKirdy.> >>> Gerry Holland <gnh@ddsc.demon.co.uk> 10/19/02 10:14pm >>>
> "In 30 years all painted Europas will be on their 6th re-spray
> and will need 120 HP to get airborne."
>
> In the light of Gary McKirdy's prediction as quoted above. How many of
> the pioneering Europas built and painted since 199* have had multiple
> resprays or had engines uprated in preparation of the inevitable weight
> increase due to yet another respray!
>
> For those of us who have opted for Paint not Gel-coat I guess we are
> running a very expensive aircraft. I'm having enough trouble selecting
> my first engine let alone my second to cope with weight increase.
> May be a Europa twin? [musing].
>
> Regards
>
> Gerry Holland
>
> EuropaTrigear 384
> G-FIZY
>
>
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