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Re: Europa-List: Starter Diode

Subject: Re: Europa-List: Starter Diode
From: Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2021 12:24:59
Kingsley, no problem here and I was just ensuring with the diagram that 
everyone contributing had access to the same info.

I think Dave has indicated he has the answer - he might even share what 
was causing the problem. =F0=9F=98

Alan

> On 7 Jun 2021, at 12:02, Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan@westnet.com.au> 
wrote:
> 
> =EF=BBHello Alan,
> 
> I wasn=99t intending to infer the diode should be across the 
starter motor as I clearly said starter solenoid in my opening 
paragraph.  
> 
> Without digging a deeper hole for myself, I offer no excuses for the 
errors in my posting other than to say my brain was obviously not 
engaged properly after 8 hrs of driving today. 
> 
> Please accept my apology (and you too Dave) for my misdemeanour. 
> 
> Regards
> Kingsley. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 8:19 pm, Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk 
<mailto:alanb@dpy01.co.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>> =EF=BB
>> <image0.jpeg>
>> 
>> The diode is connected across the starter solenoid coil not the 
contacts for the starter motor as per the extract from the build manual 
above. There is no diode across the starter motor shown in the build 
manual diagram, at least not my version.
>> 
>> With 12v positive on the starter contacter coil the diode, with the 
cathode or marked end of the diode connected to positive terminal of the 
starter coil, is reverse biased and so will not conduct. When the 
starter button release the falling emf, magnetic field, produces an 
opposite voltage in the coil and can spark across the starter switch 
contacts eventually damaging the contacts, the diode shorts out this so 
the spark does not happen.
>> 
>> If the diode is shorted out, or the wrong way round, then solenoid 
will not work, assuming the solenoid will operate without diode 
connected as a test to ensure it=99s the wiring of the diode 
that=99s the problem of course.
>> 
>> Isn=99t explaining electrical problems by email 
fun.=F0=9F=A4=A9
>> 
>> Alan
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 10:44, Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan@westnet.com.au> 
wrote:
>>> 
>>> =EF=BBHello Dave,
>>> 
>>> I haven=99t got your previous posts in front of me but I 
assume you want to put the diode across the starter solenoid.  
>>> 
>>> If my assumption is correct, you should connect the anode to the 
starter motor side of the starter solenoid and the cathode to the 
positive (starter switch) side of the solenoid. 
>>> 
>>> If you have had it connected the other way around and tried starting 
the engine, the diode would have been forward biased trying to carry the 
full current of the starter motor and more than likely will be ruined. 

>>> 
>>> Either check the diode with a multi meter ( on ohms scale) to ensure 
it conducts in one direction but not the other or use a new diode. 
>>> 
>>> When connected correctly, on pressing the starter button (or key 
switch), the diode is reverse biased and has no effect..... all the 
current passes through the solenoid.  On releasing the starter button 
(or key switch), the collapsing magnetic field in the starter solenoid 
tries to induce a high voltage spike but this is swamped by the diode 
because the diode short circuits the current induced by the collapsing 
magnetic field in the coil. 
>>> 
>>> Hope this hasn=99t made it more confusing for you.  I could 
and probably should have just said ..... connect it like the manual 
says. 
>>> 
>>> Best regards
>>> Kingsley in Oz. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 7:17 pm, david park <dpark748@me.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> =EF=BBAllan have you put ANODE to switch contact?
>>>> 
>>>> Dave Park
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:35, Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> =EF=BBAre you sure the diode is not faulty?
>>>>> 
>>>>> You can check it with an meter set to read resistance. Should be 
high resistance one way and low the other.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Have you tried connecting it the other way round?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Alan
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:02, david park <dpark748@me.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> =EF=BBBud,
>>>>>> Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to 
Earth? Not switch.
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Dave Park
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> =EF=BB
>>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>>> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode.
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Pretty much any diode will do.  If you get it backwards, the 
saving grace is the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts.  Of course, 
the solenoid must be grounded.
>>>>>>> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when 
putting on the diode.  Another problem is guys don=99t insulate 
the anode side of the diode and it shorts. 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode.  But it is an 
accepted practice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter 
solenoid.  The Europa Electrical Chapter  25 advises to use an IN5404 
but any will do.
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> IN5404
>>>>>>> <image001.png>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> silicone diode is shown above.  Anode or plus side is on the 
starter switch tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt 
holding on the starter solenoid.  I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from 
the solenoid fastening bolt to the main firewall ground.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>> Bud Yerly
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com 
<owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of david park
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM
>>>>>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode
>>>>>>>  
<mailto:dpark748@me.com>>
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation 
was as described with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end 
to earth?
>>>>>>> Have I got wrong diode.
>>>>>>> Any advice appreciated
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Dave Park G-LDVO
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>           - The Europa-List Email Forum -
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