Well stated Bud! You covered all the bases. (Filed for future reference :-) )
Cheers,
Pete
> On Mar 19, 2021, at 11:22 AM, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Brian, Pete and Steve,
> A number of us have written on Ethanol in the past and have first hand exp
erience like Brian and Pete. Attached is my first client info article from 2
012.
>
> To add a bit and not to upset anyone:
> Ethanol up to 10%, that is fresh and less than three weeks old in an aircr
aft where the octane is above 92 (US 92 RON, AKI 91, or European Super+ Roz9
5) can be run in the Rotax 912S and 914 safely. The 80 HP Rotax 912 as Crei
ghton Smith would say can run on cat pee but he uses at least normal 87 car g
as or better. Note that your local gas station normally has no clue of how l
ong the gas has sat in their tanks so go to a station that has high volume s
ales is one way to reasonably be casually assured of your fuel quality.
>
> After three weeks the ethanol MoGas octane begins to drop and gathers wate
r from the humidity when not in a sealed container. This water absorption/s
ediment causes corrosion in aluminum components and after 6 weeks a nasty gr
owth starts in stagnant fuel tanks open to the air which can cause gascolato
rs and filters to clog.
>
> WARNING: Detonation is highly possible in the 912ULS and 914 if run on im
proper octane content. The pilot cannot hear detonation in the Rotax normal
ly and a cruise propeller setting on takeoff at full power with improper oct
ane fuel can lug the engine down sufficiently to cause detonation which will
lead to rapid loss of compression, valve and piston damage, and eventual lo
ss of the engine. Unlike your auto engine, the Rotax does not have a knock s
ensor to retard spark and prevent extended detonation.
>
> Specifically for the Europa:
> The fuel lines sold as aircraft and marine use should not be used unless s
pecifically designated ethanol safe as they harden and begin to permeate fue
l vapor.
> Use R-9 or better (EPA rated ethanol safe fuel hose) that is lined only. N
ot only for the smell and vapor but for seepage also.
> Piersburg pumps are fine up to about 5 years then it is prudent to check f
uel pressure output as internal plastic/rubber components become brittle.
> Gascolators, fuel selector and fuel drain rubber components are not routin
ely ethanol safe. The O rings need to be Viton or similar to hold up to eth
anol or change them at least every two years.
> The Europa fuel tank material is PTFE and should be fine for use with etha
nol. (Much has been complained about with leaving the tank full or empty. I
keep mine full.)
> The fuel boss pickup coarse screen assembly uses Redux epoxy and this epox
y will fail over time with ethanol. It appears to work for about 3-5 years t
hen begins to break down.
> Pro seal (a fuel sealant) will begin to soften and the outer layer begins t
o get very soft and slimy, but I have seen no serious breakdown on less than
10%. But the manufacturer does not guarantee it. Newer E85 fuel safe sea
lants have come on line but I have not tried them. Parker has a V1100 and 1
200 series fluorocarbon substance that has been tested in autos as a sealant
but not aircraft.
> The fuel filler rubber elbow should be replaced as it will harden and crac
k with ethanol over time. Plus, the fuel smell permeates the rubber hose. N
asty.
> Sight gauge clear lines made from certain PVCs tend to discolor and become
cloudy with ethanol. But some don=99t, so one must experiment over t
ime.
> Any carbureted engine floats, gaskets and bowls must be inspected religiou
sly (25 hours is what I use) for deterioration from corrosion and float buoy
ancy issues with ethanol.
> MoGas with 10% ethanol as used delivers fewer BTUs and therefore less hors
epower even when fresh. In the Rotax powered Europa you will not notice muc
h of a difference until doing flight testing. The difference is minor but n
oticeable. Especially on cold starts, and long climbs is where I have perso
nally seen the difference.
>
> Some References: https://www.customflightcreations.com/techniques-article
s-and-build-information/, Lockwood Aviation, LAA, EAA and FAA websites for m
any articles and information. Or just Google =9CEthanol use in aircra
ft=9D and answer your own questions as there are many articles.
>
> If you want to just jump in the plane after letting it set for a few weeks
and fire the beast up and go fly, AvGas with the lead suspension additive (
TCP) may be more to your liking.
> If you fly only about 25 hours a year locally and fly only one or two long
er cross countries a year, your scheduled maintenance between a 25 hour oil c
hange and the normal annual oil change, plus more frequent O ring changing a
nd the like, isn=99t much of a difference cost wise using MoGas or AvG
as.
>
> In 20 years of advising on, experimenting, building and flying the Europa I
have found that fuel is one of the cheapest things we put into our aircraft
. Yes, we use quite a bit of it, but I have found our Rotax experts like Ph
il Lockwood note there is a cost to everything. MoGas is cheaper at the pum
p and oil changes are longer but, on an average, it is about $20 a flight ch
eaper to use MoGas over the short term. If using fresh MoGas to fly and the
n draining it out into the car if it has sat in the tanks for three weeks or
longer because your plane only flies once a month, you have to see what mee
ts your comfort level. If time is valuable and the tediousness of changing O
rings and pumps more often and pumping out old fuel doesn=99t bother y
ou as much as your flying fuel bill, that is up to you and your personal fly
ing. You may be the guy that drains his stagnant aircraft tank into the car
on Friday night, then on Saturday jumps into the car, pulls your Europa out
of the garage, stops at the filling station for a fresh fill and trucks on t
o the flying field for a morning flight. Or you may be the guy who leaves h
is plane outside with a cover at the field and then goes through the trials o
f a quick flight. Perhaps you are the guy that has your plane in the hangar
fueled with AvGas and simply pulls it out and fires it up. As my old frien
d Walter Hudson used to say: You know what keeps an airplane flying? Money
! How you spend it is up to you.
>
> We all have our reasons for doing what we do. Choose wisely. An airplane
is 20,000 compromises flying in formation. Change one thing and it affects
20 others. Some of us may be old and outdated (LAA/FAA/or us old farts), b
ut if it works don=99t screw with it. Reinventing or experimenting wi
th aircraft is costly so look hard at how you want to spend your time and mo
ney.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@mat
ronics.com> On Behalf Of Brian Davies
> Sent: Friday, March 19, 2021 5:34 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Ethanol in fuel. What about Brazil?
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> I can assure you that the LAA are not living in the past on this subject.
When 5% Ethanol was introduced into Mogas the UK CAA effectively banned its
use. The LAA worked hard to get this reversed and eventually the CAA agree
d that the LAA could determine which aircraft and/or engine types could use M
ogas with 5% Ethanol. Although the Rotax is cleared for fuel with some Etha
nol the aircraft fuel system may not be. Most of the problems we have exper
ienced have been related to fuel tanks and fuel pipes and poor operating pra
ctices, such as leaving stale fuel in the system. The introduction of 10% E
thanol will require a re-think. In the meantime, avoid using it as long as t
here are good alternatives such as UL91 or premium grade Mogas without Ethan
ol.
>
> A question for you before you finish your aircraft- what specification fue
l lines have you installed? Are they Ethanol proof? The stuff Europa origi
nally supplied is resistant but not proof because we did not have Ethanol in
fuel when it was originally specified.
>
> Regards
>
> Brian Davies
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@mat
ronics.com> On Behalf Of Steve Ivell
> Sent: 18 March 2021 22:49
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ethanol in fuel. What about Brazil?
>
> Hi Jonathan
>
> The Rotax engine is fine with ethanol, as you mention in Brazil. The engin
e is designed for mogas and really doesn't like Avgas.
> My feeling is that the LAA are living in the past and if it's not Avgas it
's no good!! Well it's time to smell the coffee and get used to the here and
now. 10% ethanol is coming and I'll be using it.
> It might mean changing the rubber more often but that's still much more af
fordable than having to use Avgas.
> Obviously just my humble opinion.
>
> Cheers
> Steve
> GSTES
> XS Trigear 912s..... nearly finished!!
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@mat
ronics.com> on behalf of JonathanMilbank <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk>
> Sent: Thursday, 18 March 2021, 21:35
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Ethanol in fuel. What about Brazil?
>
>
k>
>
> We in the UK are faced with the prospect of ethanol content in fuel being r
aised in September from 5% to 10%. About 10 or so years ago (or was it longe
r?) this whole subject got debated to death, with the LAA Light Aircraft Ass
ociation taking the position that we should always check each fuel batch for
ethanol before pouring it into our fuel tanks. The test using a glass test t
ube with about 1" of water in the bottom, noting its level, then adding abou
t 4 X as much fuel before shaking well and allowing to settle to see if the w
ater level had apparently risen, was not particularly accurate and I never s
aw the water level rise.
>
> The LAA's understandable position then was "If you find evidence of ethano
l in fuel, then don't use it!" This position is very unlikely to change, whi
ch will mean that Rotax engines should either use avgas or UL91. For those o
f us living in god-forsaken northern latitudes, neither of these fuels are a
vailable and it would be economically prohibitive to either import them to o
ur remote airfields or to fly to the nearest large airport to refuel, while s
imultaneously incurring landing fees and handling charges of =C3=82=C2=A3200
!
>
> Obviously (at least to me) Europas should cope with 10% ethanol in fuel, b
ecause I believe that at least one, maybe more Europas in Brazil were using f
uel with ethanol having well in ecxess of 20%. Seemingly our "plastic" fuel t
anks, automotive fuel lines and carburettors are unfased by ethanol.
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong about Brazil and let me know whether ethano
l is to blame for any fuel tank failures in Europas. Thank you.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501000#501000
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> st Email Forum -
> pa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> ==========
> p; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> ums.matronics.com
> ==========
> p; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> matronics.com
> ==========
> p; - List Contribution Web Site -
> p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
>
> <ethanol.pdf>
|