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Europa-List: RE: Europa-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 12/20/18

Subject: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 12/20/18
From: Gary Leinberger <Gary.Leinberger@millersville.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 11:25:00

I have a trigear high top and when we (Bud Yerly and I) built mine, we spent 
nearly
two days getting the canoe and top piece aligned. We made our own kit for
the high top.  We worked off a concrete floor covered with linoleum and made
sure that the entire canoe was perfectly square and aligned. The floor was not
completely level. Much of the time was building supports and then shimming it
to absolute level. This process required a great deal of just looking and 
dropping
plumb lines. Then we bondo-ed all the supports and the landing gear to the
floor. I was surprised at the time how long it took to line up. But the end
result is a plane flies great - no wandering, very true and hands off when 
trimmed
out. I find it is a better IFR platform than the 1968 Mooney I also fly.
The two axis auto pilot helps a lot, especially when ATC decides to change your
routing. You can work hands-off while (or whilst for our English friends) 
changing
the Garmin. 

All of this leads up to making sure when you get to gluing on the top of the 
canoe,
take your time and do it in a place where you can firmly secure the canoe,
and have enough space to walk around and look from a distance to get everything
exactly correct. A most critical part is getting the horizontal tail-plane
piece (can't remember the technical term for the tail-plane support piece that
turns with the tailplane) exactly correct and level. This is the most tricky
part of the build IMHO, both in terms of positioning and tightness, while 
avoiding
gluing the rotating parts. It also will be a major handhold as you move
the plane through your window to a larger space to glue on the top. If moving
the canoe without the top I would reinforce the horizontal tail-plane piece 
after
installation to the canoe by running a ratcheting tie-down around the bottom
of the canoe and to the ends of the tail-plane. 

It was amazing to me how gluing these two floppy pieces together made for such
a rigid structure. 

I also reinforced the bottom part of the area around the gear with several 
layers
of fiberglass from under the seats to about two feet behind the gear legs.
It added a few pounds but a friend building one didn't, and he ended up with 
cracks
around the gear in the bottom of the canoe. He did have one very hard landing
that bent one gear leg. Not sure if my reinforcement really helps or I just
haven't had a hard enough landing yet. (Once I learned to land at 48 - 50
rather than 70 or so landings became a piece of cake.)

Also, regarding the comment on being careful about breaking the canoe. By that
time you are ready to move it, you are talking about some serious weight in the
plane. You will probably need a half dozen people to move it safely through
the window. It will be very floppy. Have a special support for the rear end of
the plane, behind the tail-plane piece. A well designed cradle, made with the
movement through the window in mind will be necessary. Since you are building
the mono supporting it will be even more critical as you won't have the gear
legs for support.

If you go with the trigear,  the gear legs come off after completing the x 
braces
for the landing gear, although having them and wheels on, if  there is room,
makes moving it so much easier.  (I don't know how people make the conversion
---From mono to trigear after the top is on - they will probably need major back
surgery). 

Also, have you checked on insurance for a mono. In the states when I went to get
insurance in 2012, the first question was "Is it a mono?". They said they 
wouldn't
insure a mono. This may have changed since then.  (I don't want to get
into an argument about mono versus tri-gear - but you should check.) My only 
comment
is that my trigear is pussycat in crosswinds, handling far greater winds
with no sweat than the Mooney. 

Good luck on your build. It is worth the time and energy. 

Gary Leinberger
Lancaster, Pa. USA
High top Trigear, 375 hours   
________________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com 
[owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]
on behalf of Europa-List Digest Server [europa-list@matronics.com]
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 2:34 AM
Subject: Europa-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 12/20/18

*

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           ----------------------------------------------------------
                           Europa-List Digest Archive
                                      ---
                     Total Messages Posted Thu 12/20/18: 7
           ----------------------------------------------------------


Today's Message Index:
----------------------

     1. 12:35 AM - Re: Europa Club Safety Advice: Cracked U/C Frame  
(Hitchflight)
     2. 12:59 AM - Re: Re: Europa Club Safety Advice: Cracked U/C Frame  (Peter
Jeffers)
     3. 02:28 AM - Re: Building: Fitting the fuselage through the window?  
(Simon)
     4. 07:29 AM - Re: Building: Fitting the fuselage through the window?  (Fred
Klein)
     5. 08:18 AM - Re: Building: Fitting the fuselage through the window?  (GTH)
     6. 09:04 AM - Re: Building: Fitting the fuselage through the window?  
(William
Daniell)
     7. 09:45 AM - 
=?utf-8?Q?Re:__Building:_Fitting_the_fuselage_through_the_win?=
=?utf-8?Q?dow=3F?  ()


________________________________  Message 1  
_____________________________________


Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa Club Safety Advice: Cracked U/C Frame
From: "Hitchflight" <bobhitchcock@icloud.com>


Hi Rick

At this time. We do not have enough information to decide.

News on the Europa website and in the Europa Flyer when more emerges.


Bob


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486452#486452


________________________________  Message 2  
_____________________________________


From: "Peter Jeffers" <pjeffers@talktalk.net>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Europa Club Safety Advice: Cracked U/C Frame


Hi Rick,
Yes I totally agree with your last sentence.  The trouble is that at this
time we do not know for sure which aircraft these cracks may occur in.
Please remember that some Tri gears were Mono's when first flown.  To answer
another of your questions the offending frame is the same on both mono and
trigear.
Please therefore carry out the checks as requested and submit your answers
to the questionnaire to my email address on The Europa Club web site or
magazine.  When we have a reasonable no of answers we will then be able to
decide which a/c are most at risk so that if the LAA/CAA want to issue any
mandatory inspections they will be better informed about which a/c to be
targeted.
Pete Jeffers (LAA Inspector to the Europa Club)


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Moss
Sent: 20 December 2018 06:07
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa Club Safety Advice: Cracked U/C Frame


Forgive my ignorance, as a non-builder; the link makes no mention of whether
this is applicable to mono or trigear, from which I must interpret that it
is applicable to both. Am I therefore correct in assuming that the same
frame is fitted to both variants? In which case one must assume that the
loads on this frame on a mono are vastly higher than they are on a trigear?


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486451#486451


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


________________________________  Message 3  
_____________________________________


Subject: Re: Europa-List: Building: Fitting the fuselage through the window?
From: Simon <sim@4lists.simonliebold.de>


Hi Gilles,

Am 19.12.18 um 21:57 schrieb GTH:
> That's plenty of room to move the fuselage through a window.
> It all depends of what level the window is. Ground level would be
> perfect.
Thanks. This sounds encouraging. It is ground level. Sorry, I forgot to
mention.
> Concerning the tail, do you have enough room inside to move the
> fuselage around so as to insert the tail first ?
It is not huge on the inside (4,65m x 5,01m). But without cowling it
should barely fit. There is a second room that belongs to it (2m x
5.18m) to store smaller parts or the wings etc. The ceiling is at ca.
3.30m. I may be able to store parts underneath it when not working on it.
> Or room outside to do the reverse ?
Yes, it is a corner room and both windows have enough room on the
outside. It's a former train station building.
> Of course, you won't install the wheels before getting the fuse
> through the window.
It's a mono wheel. I could imagine that it could even fit with the main
wheel installed. I remeasured the window. It is actually a bit larger
than initially thought. 1,40m x 1,40m.
>
> Why not print a side view of the fuselage at a definite scale and try
> it on a plan ?
> I've seen many a fuselage getting through much narrower apertures.

Good idea. I will try that.

I took photos of the room, if anyone wants to take a look:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zpurAR6q4TwX3H8C7

Kind regards,
Simon


________________________________  Message 4  
_____________________________________


Subject: Re: Europa-List: Building: Fitting the fuselage through the window?
From: Fred Klein <freddythek10@gmail.com>


A watchword for building the Europa when working on the fuselage is to delay the
bonding of the top to the canoe for absolutely as long as possible...thus there
is a considerable amount of work which can be done without worrying... and
when thats all finished, youll want to trial fit with clecoes, after which you
can give it a go thru the window...no harm done.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 20, 2018, at 2:27 AM, Simon <sim@4lists.simonliebold.de> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Gilles,
>
>> Am 19.12.18 um 21:57 schrieb GTH:
>> That's plenty of room to move the fuselage through a window.
>> It all depends of what level the window is. Ground level would be
>> perfect.
> Thanks. This sounds encouraging. It is ground level. Sorry, I forgot to
> mention.
>> Concerning the tail, do you have enough room inside to move the
>> fuselage around so as to insert the tail first ?
> It is not huge on the inside (4,65m x 5,01m). But without cowling it
> should barely fit. There is a second room that belongs to it (2m x
> 5.18m) to store smaller parts or the wings etc. The ceiling is at ca.
> 3.30m. I may be able to store parts underneath it when not working on it.
>> Or room outside to do the reverse ?
> Yes, it is a corner room and both windows have enough room on the
> outside. It's a former train station building.
>> Of course, you won't install the wheels before getting the fuse
>> through the window.
> It's a mono wheel. I could imagine that it could even fit with the main
> wheel installed. I remeasured the window. It is actually a bit larger
> than initially thought. 1,40m x 1,40m.
>>
>> Why not print a side view of the fuselage at a definite scale and try
>> it on a plan ?
>> I've seen many a fuselage getting through much narrower apertures.
>
> Good idea. I will try that.
>
> I took photos of the room, if anyone wants to take a look:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/zpurAR6q4TwX3H8C7
>
> Kind regards,
> Simon
>
>


________________________________  Message 5  
_____________________________________


Subject: Re: Europa-List: Building: Fitting the fuselage through the window?
From: GTH <gilles.thesee@free.fr>

Hi Simon,
> It is not huge on the inside (4,65m x 5,01m). But without cowling it
> should barely fit. There is a second room that belongs to it (2m x
> 5.18m) to store smaller parts or the wings etc. The ceiling is at ca.
> 3.30m. I may be able to store parts underneath it when not working on it.
Rooms seem most adequate.
A 3.30 m ceiling is quite interesting.
> It's a mono wheel. I could imagine that it could even fit with the main
> wheel installed.

Maybe you'll be better off with setting up wheels etc. inside, then
removing them to save weight for the delicate maneuver ?
>   I remeasured the window. It is actually a bit larger
> than initially thought. 1,40m x 1,40m.
At first thought, the idea would be to turn the fuselage on it's side,
then somehow "thread" the fuselage through the aperture :


All the best,
--
Kind regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr

________________________________  Message 6  
_____________________________________


From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Building: Fitting the fuselage through the window?

Fred makes a very good  point.

Make a cradle which holds the bottom half in place from Firewall to tail.
My fuse has a slight twist (one end of the tail is 1cm lower than the
other) which is the result of not supporting the tail

Put absolutely everything in with the top off including all the electrics
and the instrument panel.  You could probably get the bottom half out
easier and then glue the top on somewhere else.

Do remember that the canoe is very floppy and can break easily if not
supported.

Will
XS tri 912 Turbo Airmaster Dynon Skyview 100 hours

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018, 10:31 Fred Klein <freddythek10@gmail.com wrote:

>
>
> A watchword for building the Europa when working on the fuselage is to
> delay the bonding of the top to the canoe for absolutely as long as
> possible...thus there is a considerable amount of work which can be done
> without worrying... and when that=99s all finished, you=99ll
want to trial fit
> with clecoes, after which you can give it a go thru the window...no harm
> done.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 20, 2018, at 2:27 AM, Simon <sim@4lists.simonliebold.de> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Gilles,
> >
> >> Am 19.12.18 um 21:57 schrieb GTH:
> >> That's plenty of room to move the fuselage through a window.
> >> It all depends of what level the window is. Ground level would be
> >> perfect.
> > Thanks. This sounds encouraging. It is ground level. Sorry, I forgot to
> > mention.
> >> Concerning the tail, do you have enough room inside to move the
> >> fuselage around so as to insert the tail first ?
> > It is not huge on the inside (4,65m x 5,01m). But without cowling it
> > should barely fit. There is a second room that belongs to it (2m x
> > 5.18m) to store smaller parts or the wings etc. The ceiling is at ca.
> > 3.30m. I may be able to store parts underneath it when not working on
> it.
> >> Or room outside to do the reverse ?
> > Yes, it is a corner room and both windows have enough room on the
> > outside. It's a former train station building.
> >> Of course, you won't install the wheels before getting the fuse
> >> through the window.
> > It's a mono wheel. I could imagine that it could even fit with the main
> > wheel installed. I remeasured the window. It is actually a bit larger
> > than initially thought. 1,40m x 1,40m.
> >>
> >> Why not print a side view of the fuselage at a definite scale and try
> >> it on a plan ?
> >> I've seen many a fuselage getting through much narrower apertures.
> >
> > Good idea. I will try that.
> >
> > I took photos of the room, if anyone wants to take a look:
> > https://photos.app.goo.gl/zpurAR6q4TwX3H8C7
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Simon
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
==========
==========
==========
==========
==========
==========
>
>

________________________________  Message 7  
_____________________________________


From: <duanefamly@aol.com>
Subject: 
=?utf-8?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_Building:_Fitting_the_fuselage_through_the_win?
=?utf-8?Q?dow=3F?

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