Brian/Pete, I suspect the explanation is that if you brake whilst
turning there is a very strong tendency to ground loop since the C of G
is behind the main wheel, which acts like a pivot. A tail wind would
aggravate the tendency to ground loop. Once into a ground loop the plane
'trips over',the wheel and touches the outer wing tip on the ground
(compressing that outrigger in the process) and also touches the
propeller on the ground. The moral is to NEVER EVER brake in a mono
unless you are going in a straight line - better to run off the runway
in general if you are in that situation where wind or over controlling
or whatever has left you turning towards the edge of the runway.
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
On 2017-04-02 19:03, Brian Davies wrote:
> Yes, the natural tendency started the event but I was late correcting and then
over controlled and ended up pointing in the other direction. Not sure why the
tail lifted but probably the combination of a tail wind and brakes.
>
> Brian
>
> FROM: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] ON BEHALF OF Pete
> SENT: 02 April 2017 14:16
> TO: europa-list@matronics.com
> SUBJECT: Re: Europa-List: Re: Considering the purchase of a 2nd hand kit
>
> Interesting example....thx for sharing. Did the tail rise because of downwind
full aft stick? Im confused why you were pointing downwind and not
weather-cocked
into the wind ( which i would have thought would have ben the planes natural
tendency)?
>
> Cheers and thx,
>
> Pete
>
> On Apr 2, 2017, at 4:56 AM, Brian Davies <brian.davies@clara.co.uk> wrote:
>
> The Mono vs Trigear debate could go on for ever and there is no clear winner.
Here is my take on it for what it is worth.
>
> I built my Europa as a Mono. Prior to flying it I had about 15 hours tailwheel
experience in a J3 Cub. I would describe myself as only an average pilot who
has work to stay sharp and current. I received expert conversion training and
then flew some 20 hours of the most challenging and enjoyable kind. I then got
too confident and tried to land on tarmac with a 90 degree 5-10 knot crosswind.
It got away from me but the runway was 45 metres wide so no real drama. Just
as the aircraft was coming to a stop at 90 degrees to the runway heading and
with the wind now up my tail I touched the brakes and it tipped on its nose
. The cost was three new Airmaster blades and an overhauled hub. It was my
fault,
not the aircraft. The lesson I learned was- you can never relax with a Mono-
you must always keep on top of it. Once you get below a certain speed if you
are still out of shape you become a passenger because you have no differential
braking to save the day.
>
> I considered my situation and decided the Mono was great fun but I wanted to
do some European touring and felt I would enjoy it more with a Trigear so I
converted.
With the speed kit fitted it is probably 5 knots slower but I don't notice
that. Once in the air I cannot tell the difference between the two
configurations.
I have never regretted my decision to convert but if asked I would
always advise someone building a Mono to go for it and enjoy the challenge. Yes,
conversion is much harder than going Tri during the build but handling a Mono
is one of those flying experiences that should not be missed.
>
> Brian Davies G-DDBD
>
> FROM: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] ON BEHALF OF Pete
> SENT: 01 April 2017 23:08
> TO: europa-list@matronics.com
> SUBJECT: Re: Europa-List: Re: Considering the purchase of a 2nd hand kit
>
> Fwiw, I had the generous opportunity to fly with Tim in his fine Mono a few
> years
back, and didn't notice any strange handling issues - in fact he showed me
two landings to prove it :) I did't get the impression it was any busier than
a normal taildragger either. Thanks again Tim! I had the same observations on
my other three mono demo flights. For sure it would have different techniques
with the outriggers than a 'normal' taildragger, but nothing that couldn't be
easily learned. Up here in canada, the young air cadets train on gliders without
disaster. I for sure will build mine as a mono, as the mono's attributes
are what attracted me to the plane in the first place, and the entire structure
is based on the compact and efficient design. For sure it is less busy on the
ground than my short coupled and inadequate tailed hummelbird :-)
>
> That said, the tri "gold rush" that is for sale would be the most economical
way to get into a europa (the current north american resale values for europas
has plummeted, simply due to their sparse numbers, and fickle NA flyers
preference
to match hole sonex's and RV's).
>
> So far i have not yet flown another type that is so beautifully harmonized,
> stable
and yet responsive. DD did his homework well! I still love this design this
19 years after i first did my research.
>
> Cheers and blue skies,
>
> Pete
>
> C-IPWZ (not a europa ;)
>
> On Apr 1, 2017, at 1:54 PM, Pete Lawless <pete@lawless.info> wrote:
>
> Hi Ira
>
> I agree totally with Tim. In fact in the last 15 years since my mono has been
flying I have never noticed any tendency to tip the nose down on braking
regardless
of the G of G.
>
> You just need soft hands on the ailerons to keep the wings level. If you over
control and push the outrigger into the surface then it affects the C of G,
unloads
the tail wheel and a ground loop is waiting to happen.
>
> Having owned a share in a Cub I think the mono is neither harder nor easier
> just
different.
>
> Pete
>
> G-RMAC #109
>
> On 01/04/17 18:15, houlihan tim wrote:
>
> Hi Ira
>
> "Prop strikes on Mono's are common". What makes you say that ?
>
> In the UK there is no noticeable difference between aircraft insurance
> premiums
for tri gear and mono, which tells you something .
>
> Sure if you brake hard while turning you can upset things but the accident
> rate
is very similar for both types.
>
> I have had my 912 mono classic flying for 15 years now and yes I broke a prop
( only once) but as I attempted to land rounding out about ten feet too high
I blame the pilot (me) not the configuration , indeed in a similar situation a
tri gear would not only have damaged the prop but also the nosewheel.
>
> Better pilots than me have described the mono as no more difficult to operate
than a piper cub, Having only been a passenger in a cub I cannot give an opinion
on that.
>
> The mono is a tail wheel aeroplane and behaves like one,
>
> regards
>
> Tim
>
> G-BZTH
>
> On 01 April 2017 at 17:30 rampil <ira.rampil@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> To further your consideration, the mono wheel also has a spinny thing
> on the front end which is absent from most gliders. Prop strikes are also
> common with monowheels. Depending on you CG loading, a tap on
> the brake might just rock you forward! Fortunately (if one can say
> that in this context), the combination of carbon fiber prop and
> Rotax gear box usually prevents expensive engine damage.
>
> --------
> Ira N224XS
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467914#467914 [1]
>
>>
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