europa-list
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: Europa-List: Ducati rectifier/regulators ... a different perspective

Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ducati rectifier/regulators ... a different perspective
From: nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk <nigelgraham@mtecque.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 16:10:48
Max,

There is no English version of the Silent Hektic website. The 
information I quoted came from data I downloaded,  translated and 
archived some time ago. I've just been back onto their site and see that 
they have updated it with many new products (lots more RRs, a tempting 
fuel injection conversion for the 912 and a completely new three-phase 
generator set) but the snippet of information I quoted is now missing.

If you want a copy of my archived copy, let me know off-list and I'll 
forward it.

Nigel


On 22/01/2014 13:00, Max Cointe (Free) wrote:
>
> Nigel,
>
> I wasn't able to find an English version of the S-H website, is there 
> any and where your comments on Ducati's comes from?
>
> MaxCointe
>
> mcointe@free.fr <mailto:mcointe@free.fr>
>
> F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
>
> Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 490 hours
>
> F-PLDJ Dyn'Aro MCR 4S
>
> Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1600 heures
>
> *De :*owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com 
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *De la part de* 
> nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk
> *Envoy :* mercredi 22 janvier 2014 11:26
> * :* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Objet :* Re: Europa-List: Ducati rectifier/regulators ... a different 
> perspective
>
> David, My feeling is that the Ducati RR is under-designed for its task 
> and it is really a matter of where you site it under the cowl, that 
> decides it's fate. By good planning or just good luck, yours seems to 
> cool well and thus survives. If the Silent Hektik website is to be 
> believed (see below), the Ducati RR is being over-driven.
>
> Nigel
>
>
> */The Ducati controller/*/
> //The original controller supplied by Ducati Energia is equipped with 
> semiconductors , which allow a brief loading of 25A at 14V .
> Continuous loading of the semiconductor is limited under standard 
> conditions at 25  C to around 17A. but since the alternator can 
> deliver up to 20A, the original controller is overloaded even under 
> optimal conditions. This results in frequent failures. /
>
>
> On 21/01/2014 22:15, David Joyce wrote:
>
>     <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> <mailto:davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
>     Tim, I absolutely accept that it is not ideal and could cause more
>     serious problems than simple lack of charge, but one benign
>     failure in 12 years of flying is pretty close to acceptable
>     reliability for me, and I enjoy gliding anyway!
>         Happy Landings, David
>
>
>      houlihan <houlihan@blueyonder.co.uk>
>     <mailto:houlihan@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>     Hi David.
>
>     One thing to bear in mind is that there are, as I understand it,
>     several
>     modes of failure of the Ducatti unit the most benign being that it
>     just
>     stops charging the battery and feeding the services.
>     This is as you describe and as I also suffered ( why does this
>     happen mid
>     channel?) but I believe it can fail and possibly allow high
>     voltage DC or
>     AC onto the bus giving your expensive radio and other clever stuff
>     a real
>     hard time !
>
>     In the UK there is very little difference in cost between the
>     Schicke and
>     the Ducatti  they are very similar in size and the wiring is only
>     slightly
>     changed , one wire not connected, and the generator fail light has to
>     become an LED.
>
>     Tim
>
>
>     On 21 January 2014 19:13, David Joyce <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>     <mailto:davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
>     davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk <mailto:davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>>
>
>
>     Nigel, Fascinating and impressively erudite. You have totally
>     convinced me
>     that the way all new builders should go is with a Mofset bit of kit.
>     However my personal solution is to take  the odd Ducatti at sale
>     price off
>     anyone not planning to fit them and fly with a spare! In 1000hrs I
>     have had
>     one failure. That was inconveniently 1/3 way between Holland and
>     Clacton,
>     but there was enough juice in the battery to get me all the way
>     home with a
>     bit of thoughtful systems management. I currently fly with Rowland's
>     spurned new Ducatti in my spares department under pax seat, but am
>     prepared
>     to offer a modest price for another unwanted Ducatti!
>         Regards, David
>
>     "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" <mailto:nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
>     <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk> <mailto:nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
>     wrote:
>
>
>     I have followed this discussion with great interest and with an
>     increasing sense of Dj vu.
>     When the issue of regulator/rectifier failures occur withing the
>     Rotax
>     community, the standard fix seems to be to simply replace like
>     with like
>     (at elevated Rotax pricing) and fly on until the next unit fails.
>
>     Up until about five years ago, nearly all modern Japanese motorcycles
>     used the same technology as that found on the Rotax 91x series
>     engines,
>      permanent-magnet generators controlled by SCR
>     rectifier/regulators. It may
>     come as some surprise that for an industry renowned for precision and
>     reliability, nearly all of these major motorcycle manufactures
>     have at some
>     time, been plagued by problems with their SCR based
>     rectifier/regulators
>     failing and burning out alternators and wiring, cooking batteries
>     and in
>     extreme cases, squirting unregulated AC into the wiring loom and
>     blowing up
>     ECUs. It was just such a failure that "sparked" my interest :-(
>
>     Known as "Shunt Regulators" the SCR technology runs extremely hot and
>     requires more cooling air than modern styling and space allows.
>     The solution was a move towards MOSFET controlled regulators and the
>     numerous web-based one-make discussion groups were full of
>     information and
>     advice on the reasons for failure, the benefits of the change and
>     practical
>     advice on how to convert.
>
>     It was by trawling these groups that I was able to build up a good
>     understanding of how these R/Rs worked, what was causing the
>     problem and
>     what the potential solution might be. I compiled what I considered
>     to be
>     the best informed snippets of information into the attached document.
>     The first half gives an overview of a typical design of an SCR
>     Rectifier/Regulator for use on a permanent-magnet generating
>     system and the
>     second half discussed the relative merrits of SCR versus MOSFET.
>
>     It would be interesting to know which technology the the after-market
>     Schicker and Silent-Hektic R/Rs use.
>
>     Nigel
>
>     ===========
>     ===========
>     ===========
>     ===========
>
>
> *  *           - The Matronics List Features Navigator to & Download, 7-Day 
> Browse, Chat,    -->http://www.matron===================                great 
> content also available via the Web    -->  
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>http://forums.matronics.comstyle='mso-spacerun:yes'>
>              - style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  Thank you for your generous 
> style='mso-spacerun:yes'>                              -Matt Dralle, List 
> style='mso-spacerun:yes'>   -->http://www.matronics.com/c=  
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> *  *  <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> *
>
>
> *



<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>