and... if I recall correctly David told me that a quirk of the regs
allowed him to fly a motor glider IFR !!
On 9/27/07, Ralph K. Hallett III <n100rh@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Terry,
> I'm sure you remember David Anderson. He lost his medical when he got a
> defibrillator, built a MotorGlider and flew it as a self launch until he
> had the defib removed and got his 1st class medical back. So the answer
> is yes you fly it with your glider rating which doesn't require a medical.
> Ralph
> MG 914 five years in the build, ugh!
> Reno, NV
>
> Terry Seaver (terrys) wrote:
> > Hi Bud,
> > I am Dave's partner in the Europa. In your email you suggest leaving
> > our plane registered as an airplane (with two sets of wings), rather
> > than trying to re-register it as a plane with short wings and a
> > motorglider with long wings, as quoted below;
> > 'You do not need to dual register the aircraft, that is the pilot rating.'
> > If I lose my airplane medical and continue flying as a self launched
> > glider pilot, can I then fly the long wing Europa AIRPLANE legally?
> > regards,
> > Terry Seaver
> > N135TD
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *ALAN YERLY
> > *Sent:* Thursday, September 27, 2007 9:46 AM
> > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com; davedeford@comcast.net
> > *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: motorglider V-speeds and registration
> >
> > Dave,
> > As the Europa US Distributor I have registered a number of Europas and
> > have talked extensively with the FAA regarding registration of both
> > wings.
> > It is a piece of cake, and the EAA has an excellent series of
> > downloads on how to fill out the forms.
> > Notes:
> > Register the aircraft as an airplane! Not a motorglider.
> > Your DAR should by now have direction on the limitations for your
> > fly-off with both wings.
> > They are in a nutshell: Fly with short wings the 40 hours (Clear your
> > Stage 1). Then fly an additional 5-10 hours depending on your DAR to
> > establish the characteristics with the long wings (when adding glider
> > wings later, your initial airworthyness restrictions on where to fly
> > are considered and may be re-imposed).
> > You do not need to dual register the aircraft, that is the pilot rating.
> > I talked with the FAA senior trainer for DARs regarding the Europa
> > dual wing and pilot registration problems. If your DAR has a problem,
> > he can call Brad Outlaw or Les Sargent at the FAA (Brad is the senior
> > trainer for QC) and Brad will give him the straight skinny.
> > I am attaching the Motorglider Pilot Handbook for you to download and
> > print. All the numbers are there.
> > I have suggested an operational limitation for the airbrake opening
> > for one pilot due to his experience as his airbrakes tend to flutter
> > just as you crack open the airbrakes above 100KIAS. Once deployed they
> > are smooth. As a result of being harder to deploy above that speed and
> > personally, the resultant pitch down associated with them at speed and
> > the force to hold them open is a nuisance, so we limited his aircraft
> > to near normal flap lowering speeds of 85 KIAS because for him they
> > are mainly used in the pattern rather than high speed descent. The
> > motor glider is deceptively fast. When built light and at low altitude
> > (1500 feet) and 75% power on a Rotax 912S you will cruise near 110-115
> > KIAS. One updraft and a little push over and you are over 120 in a
> > heartbeat.
> > As for marking, the FAA was amenable to dual markings. This presents a
> > problem for EFIS equipped aircraft as the devices show only one set of
> > speeds. Perhaps your DAR will allow a placard next to the EFIS if so
> > equipped.
> > In my experience with the three motor gliders I have helped construct,
> > the CG shifts forward about .75 to 1.0 inch with the glider wings.
> > Yes, you must do another weight and balance. Typical weight increase
> > is 100 pounds. (It was more of a reason to diet.)
> > CG will determine if you achieve a stall or if it is nose heavy, where
> > full aft stick limit is achieved. CG limits are the same for both
> > wings and the aircraft flies best, in my opinion, with the long wings
> > at about 60 inches empty. I have only gotten down to 55 KIAS full aft
> > stick due to forward CG on the aircraft tested (59.25 inch).
> > I am posting, at my own dread, my rant on Vne to another builder.
> > My background is a military fighter pilot and a Functional Test Pilot
> > (the guy who gets stuck flying the aircraft after a complete teardown
> > or problems with aircraft handling or the stability and control
> > systems) and as such have some experience in taking aircraft routinely
> > to their design limits of airspeed and G to assure proper operational
> > safety. I am also an Aeronautical Engineer (Parks '72) and an avid
> > EAAer. So here is my rant edited for children and sensitive adults:
> > Airbrake extension is Vne but I find 85 knots to be most comfortable
> > as they can vibrate on opening and closing above 100KIAS.
> > Vne 129 KIAS
> > Vlg is 83 KIAS (Gear and Flaps came down together right!)
> > No idea what is maneuvering above 1370. You must pull max G and
> > achieve the stall simultaneously to find the value to determine
> > Vmanuever.
> > RE G limit
> > You must lower your G proportionately above 1370 lbs due to
> > wing/airframe stress.
> > I interpolated some a long time ago and made a placard in excel for
> > someone. Hope the cut and paste is readable.
> > **
> > *STRUCTURAL LIMIT: *
> > *+3.8g / -1.9g at 1370lbs.*
> > **
> > **
> >
> > *+3.5g / -1.5g at *
> > *1450 lbs.*
> > **
> > **
> >
> > *+3.3g/-1.3 at *
> > *1550 lbs.*
> > **
> > **
> >
> > The landing gear has only been drop tested to 1370. You should drop
> > your aircraft 12 inches at the max landing weight you are redesigning
> > to for verification.
> > Added Note: The trigear legs move a lot at 1550 pounds. It will get
> > your attention. The monowheel squats even more.
> > Yes I have flown the aircraft over gross, but very gently and got away
> > with it. I don't do it on a routine basis and don't recommend it.
> > Although someone has flown their personal aircraft beyond the limits,
> > that doesn't mean yours will do the same. Every builder has different
> > standards and conditions on building his aircraft. That's why
> > production aircraft have quality control procedures but, we kit
> > builders in the US are not blessed or affected by them, only our
> > personal QC.
> > The Glider POH is attached but is not PFA approved or edited as of
> > this printing. The PFA has still not certified the wings because of
> > the the PFA getting to it, but all the testing has been completed and
> > adjustments made years ago. John and Roger at the factory are pushing
> > them as hard as they can.
> > As for Vne. It is the value determined by the engineers and test
> > pilots together.
> > It is generally an indicated airspeed or a mach number (some of the
> > new all glass biz jets display the limit on the TAS display but it is
> > really a mach limit).
> > Added Note: Mach varies primarily with temperature, therefore it is
> > altitude dependent. Mach and TAS are proportional in that .8 Mach is
> > 480 KTAS at F-4 cruise altitudes to within a couple of knots. See the
> > note on your E6B computer and test it yourself. Wing design (camber
> > and sweep) determine Mach crit. The aircraft shape and planform
> > determine the effects of Mach crit.
> > Vne is determined by the design limit, the Q limit (dynamic pressure)
> > and the structural anomalies such as flutter, wing divergence,
> > windscreen implosion, tail plane effectiveness due to critical mach,
> > etc. The value must be read by the pilot with basic flight instruments
> > provided by the manufacturer. It is also affected by the gust factor
> > and other government imposed guidelines on designers. Allowances are
> > made, and some safety factors are involved but not printed for public
> > use. Vne has never been a TAS limit in any design class or aircraft I
> > have flown. The airplane only feels indicated airspeed (dynamic
> > pressure) and mach effects period.
> > The T-38 is limited by the Q on the windscreen,
> > The T-33 by the mach crit.
> > The F-4 by the longitudinal stability and radome Q limit (heat and
> > pressure)
> > You guys are too much into details on the internet. All you guys need
> > to know is it is the limit that is imposed, by one of the factors
> > deemed important.
> > Bottom line: Limits are limits. Boldly going beyond them is to be
> > avoided. Changing the operational limits of an aircraft must go back
> > to the manufacturer. By the way Mr. Mac's engineers built the F-4 to
> > meet a certain spec and said, if you need more G, it will cost you!
> > There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old bold pilots....I have
> > been to their funerals. Build a Europa light and by the book and the
> > aircraft will give you what we have found to be a delightful sport
> > aircraft. If you must change your aircraft, seek paid professional
> > help willing to stand by their recommendations. Kit manufacturers
> > which open up actual test results expose themselves to assumptions
> > that a novice may make in a modification to the construction of his
> > aircraft or its operation.
> > All manufacturers learn and improve their products through field
> > experience. That is why I respect the Europa Club and their approach
> > to aircraft mods. The UK owners are limited by PFA guidelines, but
> > work within the system to make the product better. And all the
> > manufacturers listen. We in the states have more latitude and it is
> > forums like this where we can find out what has worked and what was
> > done to make it work. Sorry for the rant. Keep asking questions and
> > doing the research. Those of us who can help on these forums generally
> > do. I lost two hours of shop time putting together emails such as
> > this, and I can't afford to do it as often as I would like to weigh
> > in. Looks like I will be working late tonight.
> > I hope this has helped and please call if you get stuck on registration.
> > Off my soapbox now,
> > Bud Yerly
> > Custom Flight
> > 813 653 4989
> > www.customflightcreations.com <http://www.customflightcreations.com>
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
>
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