Hi! All.
This just may be "old hat" to all you vintage fliers but to a "newby" such
as myself it comes as a surprise that 123.45 is allocated elswhere.
The attached "unsolicited" e-mail seems to me to be of particular interest
to the Europa forum and as such I'm "patching" the whole message on since
I'm very much aware that the numerous group fly arounds do already use the
frequency and for a replacement frequency to be "negotiated" will take some
PRESSURE to be applied like hundreds of e-mails to John Banks Esq.
IMHO such a frequency is certainly a considerable benefit to such as new
group fliers on "training" trips abroard (although the CAA don't immediately
cover the whole of Europe they ought to be able to make representations even
in the interests of reducing the load on ATC when a group in formation pass
through.
This is about where you all e-mail me ....."been there done that!!!"
However I'll be sending Mr.Banks a message immediately. INCIDENTALLY THE
ORIGINAL SAID IT WAS CONFIDENTIAL AND MUST NOT BE SENT ON TO OTHER
RECIPIENTS SO SHOULD YOU WRITE TO HIM DON'T "PATCH" ANY OF THIS MESSAGE ON
TO HIM! OTHERWISE IT JUST MIGHT TAKE ANOTHER DECADE TO GET ACTION!
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI 337/Jabiru 3300 #084
-----Original Message-----
I hope you will excuse this unsolicited E mail but I thought that as
fellow flyers you might be interested?
I wrote to the CAA about chat frequencies as they had Notam'd we
shouldn't use 123.45, see response below
He sounds a nice chap but has put me 'on file'.....Maybe if the file
gets thick enough he will be move to do something?
He gave me permission to post his reply on forums which I have.
How about dropping him a line, no need for a long note just something
like:
With the Notam asking aircraft to stop using 123.45 could the CAA
consider supporting a chat frequency for air to air for general use?
john.banks@dap.caa.co.uk
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: Air to Air and air to ground frequencies, Attention John
Bank s
Dear Mr James,
Thank you for your comments on the recent NOTAM regarding the use of
123.45MHz for air-to-air communications.
We have had numerous problems in the past with interference on 123.45MHz
but
the NOTAM was largely triggered by two recent events.
Firstly we received reports of unacceptable congestion (interference by
unauthorized traffic) on 123.45MHz from a UK operator who had been
assigned
this channel for his VHF ground station. This operator is indirectly
involved in Search & Rescue services, making good communications
essential.
Secondly, at a recent meeting of European frequency managers, a Danish
colleague informed me that he had received similar complaints from an
operator in the North Sea (in a sector close to UK waters). Being aware
that unauthorised airborne users within the UK FIR could interfere with
both
these ground stations, and potentially several others within nearby
Europe,
I considered it wise to submit a paragraph the AIP on the use of
123.45MHz
and support this with a NOTAM.
The AIP submission will read as follows:
USE OF 123.45MHZ FOR AIR-TO-AIR COMMUNICATIONS
1. The purpose of this circular is to clarify the
use
123.45MHz as an Air-To-Air communications channel within the UK FIR.
2. ICAO Annex 10 Volume V Para 4.1.3.2.1 states
that
123.45MHz shall be designated for use as an Air-To-Air communications
channel to enable aircraft engaged in flights over remote and oceanic
areas,
out of range of VHF ground stations, to exchange necessary operational
information and to facilitate the resolution of operational problems.
3. Within the UK and Europe there are a number of
VHF
ground stations operating air traffic and operational control services
on
123.45MHz. There have been numerous reports of aircraft within the UK
FIR
using this frequency as an unauthorised Air-To-Air open communications
channel. Attention is brought to the fact that the resulting
interference
---From unauthorised use of this channel is potentially detrimental to
flight
safety.
There are already general frequencies allocated over the UK FIR for
gliders,
microlights and balloons. However, there is currently no general
frequency
allocation for air-to-air communications. I recognise that there may be
a
case for the provision of a general air-to-air frequency for formation
flyers etc, but there have been very few formal enquiries from aviation
to
date. Should there be suficient interest I will happily take the issue
forward with the relevant departments within the Authority although it
should be borne in mind that there would be various safety and
operational
issues to address before a frequency allocation could be approved.
Regarding your comment on providing an empty channel from the frequency
list, I'm afraid this is simply not possible. There is severe
congestion in
the VHF aeronautical spectrum, and there are no empty channels
whatsoever.
In fact channels are re-used many times over. Interference is minimised
by
applying a complex set of planning rules which take account of various
factors such as separation distance, type of service, topography and
equipment parameters. You state that any general air-to-air channel
would
be for use only outside of the ATZ and controlled airspace.
Unfortunately,
the physics of radio propagation is such that rules of this type will
not
help minimise the liklihood of interference. Notwithstanding this,
although
it would be challenging to find a suitable frequency for a general
air-to-air channel, it would probably be possible in the medium to long
term.
I hope the above gives you some insight into the issue. With your
permission, I will add your comments to my air-to-air file and try to
keep
you advised of any significant future developments.
Yours sincerely,
John Banks
Frequency Manager, DAP (CAA)
Direct Dial: 020 7453 6532
Fax: 020 753 6565
From: "James, Clive R" <jamescr@BP.com>
Subject: Air to Air and air to ground frequencies, Attention John Banks
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:14:09 -0000
The is a thread on the Flyer website discussing the recent Notam on use
of the 123.45 frequency.
There is a post of a reply from a John Banks for info from folk who use
unlicensed chat frequencies, link below.
John, I don't know if you are a pilot, if you are I apologise if I'm
talking to some one who undertsands most of what I'm saying.
I am luck enough to have my own small plane and fly fairly frequently. I
very often fly in lose formation with other aircraft, between a quarter
of a mile to 3 miles or so apart. When not in contact with a flight
agency we need to talk to each other for several reasons. The prime one
is safety, if you can imagine being very close to another aircraft going
to the same place and not being able to see them, its a little spooky,
if you can talk to them you can quickly establish each others
whereabouts. Why would we lose sight? It only takes a few seconds to
lose sight of each other and even though I've flow many hours in loose
formation it still happens now and again. We tend to use a particular
frequency which hasn't ever caused and problems and is used by many
pilots throughout the UK. In fact we used the same frequency in France,
Germany and the Czech republic and never heard another soul (we once
spoke to another Brit 100mls away who was touring France aswell).
Now, not knowing much about the sort of problems you have with freq
allocations we, the flying masses, of can't see why you can't run your
finger down the list and pick a couple of empty ones and say, here you
go, this one's for GA, this for microlights, this for gliders and this
for balloons. Or this is for Southern England this for Northern England
and Scotland, by area, probably a better idea. These frequencies are
yours to use at you own risk for air to air and air to ground for
communication to aircraft and ground stations. They can't be used when
in ATZ's and controlled airspace. They can't be used for aircraft
control merely information exchange and general chat.
Maybe you can explain?
Regards, Clive James
<<FLYER Air Portal.url>>
|