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Re: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing

Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 03:03:12
Bud, Possibly the earlier versions of the SR3000 were 1600mm but my more 
recent SR3000 N W comes with its certificate stating 1625mm, or 64 ins 
as corrected by Paul. Regards, David

On 2021-12-29 22:42, Bud Yerly wrote:

> David,
> 
> The Woodcomp has a larger twist hence it varies in exact length at the 
> props are made from 1600 (63") to  1738mm (68").  Woodcomp uses a 
> 1600mm blade for the Europa on their SR3000.  On the Airmaster, the 
> actual blade length will vary from the 64 inch maximum based on the 
> production mold used down slightly after production.  For instance, at 
> Woodcomp they don't cut a 1700 mm prop down to 1600.  That is a 
> different mold so measuring the prop provided will not always be exact. 
>  64 inches maximum meets the criteria for the UK and US with the black 
> rubber block (as the regs are basically the same).  Europa 2004, 
> Airmaster and I have supplied many props (even fixed pitch) at 64 
> inches per the LAA.  (Let's face it, it is only an inch longer at the 
> tip than yours.)  The Europa Club website indicates that the Airmaster 
> was considered to be the "standard" for the Europa.   They are all 
> nominally 62-64" maximum length.  Unfortunately, the Europa Factory POH 
> from 1998 still says 62 inches in the performance numbers because the 
> original engine was the 912.   Those figures are based on the narrow 
> chord blade.  Note, from my reading of the original test flights the 
> fixed prop was set to a takeoff static RPM of 4000 for cruise and 5500 
> for takeoff for testing like most Rotax powered kit planes trick us 
> with.  Note the tip is really set high at 21degrees for the 912S.  The 
> 912S with the wide chord give better performance from takeoff to 
> cruise.
> 
> I'm forced to say that all our 64 inch props are not exactly 64 inch 
> blade lengths after mounting in the rotating barrel of a constant speed 
> prop.  It seems there are no absolutes in aviation.  By the time the 
> blades are ground to length, shaped and balanced, each prop is slightly 
> different in length.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Bud Yerly
> 
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com 
> <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of 
> davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2021 3:47 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
> 
> Mike, for what it is worth I have a Woodcomp 1625mm (=62" as near as 
> dammit) prop on my 914XS mono. I am not aware of prop limitations 
> differing between Classic and XS. I have always understood that this 
> was the max size that the LAA would approve. The clearance is fine on 
> hard runways, but on roughish grass strips you wouldn't want any longer 
> blades than that, as you might find the tips getting stained green. 
> Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
> 
> On 2021-12-29 12:03, Mike wrote:
> 
> Hello Tim
> 
> Thanks, this is what I was after the only problem is that sadly for me 
> you are in NZ and I suppose governed by different regs!
> 
> Here in the UK we are subject to something called CS-VLA 925 (easily 
> googled) which makes minimum prop clearance demands.
> 
> However glad to hear that you are getting good results, what brand of 
> blades are you using?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Mike
> 
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com 
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of timward
> Sent: 29 December 2021 10:45
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
> 
> Hi Mike,
> 
> I have 64" prop blades on my Mono Wheel Classic #292. Prop clearance is 
> not a problem.
> 
> With the Airmaster CSU, Rotax 912ULS 100hp, it provides excellent 
> performance.
> 
> Upgraded to 64" from 62" after a prop strike, on recommendation from 
> Airmaster.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tim
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> Tim Ward
> 
> 12 Waiwetu Street,
> 
> Fendalton,
> 
> Christchurch, 8052
> 
> New Zealand.
> 
> ward.t@xtra.co.nz
> 
> 021 0640221
> 
> On 29/12/2021, at 11:29 PM, Mike <mike@nyumba.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks Bud for your usual excellent reply.
> I have been in contact with Dirk who has indeed suggested a replacement
> blade of 64" and been most helpful but the issue remains, can I fit a 
> 64" to
> a classic mono. The LAA have provided me with a spreadsheet of 
> calculations
> to determine prop tip clearance at Max AUW which I will carry out but 
> they
> were unable to find out easily if any other classics were operating 
> with a
> 64" prop so this is why I asked the community if anyone was operating 
> with
> one.
> Thanks for the pointer to your website I will certainly have a look.
> 
> Thanks
> Mike
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> budyerly@msn.com
> Sent: 28 December 2021 16:44
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
> 
> <budyerly@msn.com>
> 
> Mike,
> My website has how to select a prop for your Rotax.
> 
> The 62 inch Warp Drive Taper blade is fine for most 80HP Rotax 
> powerplants.
> The Rotax 912ULS 100HP has significantly more torque and the 62 inch 
> tapered
> blade is not very efficient.  My US folks were very disapointed with 
> trying
> to use this short tapered blade on the 912ULS in both the Airmaster and 
> the
> fixed pitch versions.
> 
> The blade angle will be quite high and takeoff will be shortened, climb 
> will
> be less and the cruise will be about 5 knots slower.  The 80HP Rotax 
> won't
> spin a wide chord 64 inch without lugging the engine down.  There is 
> just
> not enough torque.  The tip at takeoff is not able to bite for good
> performance.
> 
> The LAA recommendations is for the Warp Drive Standard (wide chord) 
> blade of
> 64 inch for the Europa (which limits the length for the airframe to 64
> inches) and was the standard Airmaster for a number of years.  The 
> 100HP
> Rotax has the higher torque and can spin the wider and longer props 
> with
> authority.
> 
> Also available for the cost of a blade change is the Sensenich high 
> speed
> blades.  Whirlwind has a blade but due to Covid lockdowns in California 
> lead
> time is many months.  Sensenich and Warp Drive are made in free States 
> so
> production and labor issues are not a major problem for delivery at 
> this
> time.  Airmaster will build you up a set of blades and ferrules ready 
> to
> mount.  It will cost you but it is worth it.
> 
> Contact: Dirk Oyen
> Oyen CTR (Europe Sales and Service)
> Hemelrijk 61
> Heusen-Zolder
> Limburg 3550
> Belgium
> 
> E: dirk.oyen1@telenet.be
> M: +32 477 25 80 28
> 
> Website: www.propellor.com [1] your European Airmaster Dealer.  He has 
> the
> experience you will need to draw on in the UK (See the Airmaster 
> Contacts
> section for resellers.)
> 
> I have been happy with all the US manufactured blades in the Airmaster 
> Hub.
> And NO, you personally can't change the blades yourself.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
> US Airmaster Dealer
> 
> Read this topic online here:
> 
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505507#505507
> 
> <====================
> 
> <sp;                        -Matt D=====================


Links:
------
[1] http://www.propellor.com


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