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Re: Europa-List: Other items on the Silent-hektik web site

Subject: Re: Europa-List: Other items on the Silent-hektik web site
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 18:47:39
Graham and other Regulator Haters:

The Silent-hektik (SH) may be just the ticket guys.
The GR6 I am sure is fine, but for the bucks it is not a credit card buy 
and plug and play as is the SH.  It is LAA approved though.

I have had two Regulator failures in 12AY.  The first was a result of a 
shorted stator.  Not the Regulators fault.
The second due to a nasty bad habit which weakened the fragile innards 
of the poor Ducati.  Others were lost due to high current load.

Recently I had a hard week of learning as Gary Leinberger and I did some 
mods to his electrical, adding a gear driven B&C Alternator to his 
airplane and splitting the buss to reduce the load on his Ducati/Rotax 
alternator. 

We immediately found trouble with the newly installed Ducati.  It would 
overvolt, then the OVP would kill the alternator field or Control 
voltage.  Which is really ODD.
In Normal Troubleshooting:
Typically I look for a C wire problem with the Ducati.  If the voltage 
output is out of tolerance at 3-4000 RPM I go down to Lockwood and use 
their test bench.  You can do it on the aircraft also.  Hook up a 15 amp 
load ( I use three H4 auto driving lights for about 150Watts hooked up 
to the alternator stud and don't power up any avionics or other bus 
related items) and check the voltage output on regulator.  I check the R 
and B+ volts against the C wire (Control) and jot the info down.  I put 
a rag or towel around the Ducati to check how hot the unit is getting 
(always fun around a whirling propeller).  Usually it is only slightly 
warm.  If the two voltages are the same, at about 13.5-13.8 and the 
lights are nice and bright.  Good to go.
If you have your ammeter set up as a load meter and another as an charge 
meter, you can easily do the same using your power hungry panel and 
lights.  The objective is to have a steady draw on the alternator and to 
check the output and control voltages which should be the same...  At 
Lockwood I drink coffee and watch.

High voltage output is not common and as has been reported in this 
thread as far back as 2006, if the C voltage is low, this can drive the 
output voltage up, trying to get the battery voltage back to its 12.0.  
Our problem was not that.  The C volts to B+ was within 0.1 volts.  Why 
the high voltage?  I found through Lockwood that the RV12 community was 
having a similar problem in their electronic busses...  It is bus 
related.

Basic Ducati understanding has been commented on before by smarter 
people than I:
The Ducati is a switching regulator using Thyristors, which are nothing 
more than fast acting switches, along with diodes to output and control 
DC voltage.  Remembering back to my younger days with point controlled 
regulators, I knew that the entire system (battery, resistance and 
voltage output of the dynamo all had to meet specs for the regulator to 
cycle its switching relay properly to control the battery voltage for 
charging.  Since the Ducati converts AC current to DC via a set of 
diodes, (making a pulsed and a somewhat noisy signal), it then adjusts 
the voltage by simply cutting off the power pulses shutting off the 
current (dumping it to ground) through the Thyristors and are controlled 
by a clever set of transistors and resistors which feed the dump signal 
(or switch signal) to the Thyristors.  As the voltage drops, the 
Thyristors again switch off, and power is restored and the cycle 
continues in this on and off scenario.  Thyristors pulse really fast 
(100,000 times per minute) and don't wear out normally.    However, they 
do get abused by either drawing too much current than designed when 
locked in the on position, trying to charge a poor battery, or the bus 
voltage is too low being supplied back to the C terminal causing the 
Thyristors to again stay open too long.  
For proper performance, the battery voltage must be up to spec.  There 
can be no voltage drop between the C and R+.  And the current draw on 
the bus cannot exceed the rated output or the regulator, lest components 
get hot or just burn out.
The light circuit is really a neat thing.  It is C voltage run through a 
diode that goes to L spade then to the bulb (there is more to it than 
that but simply put, it is slightly lower voltage than C).  The other 
leg of the bulb goes to the C.  With R/B+ and C equal, and only getting 
battery voltage, the Light goes on because of the voltage difference 
between C and L.  Essentially, as the alternator supplies power, the 
voltage of the L leg and C leg become equal and the bulb extinguishes as 
it has equal power to each leg.  Of course it is important to note that 
if the transistor regulator circuit goes bad, you don't get voltage 
regulation or C control (unit shuts down) and the light is inoperative.  
So the only real means of knowing if your alternator has failed is an 
ammeter and a voltmeter in this failure mode. This is common in all 
regulators.

Back to our problem:
I contacted a long time producer of electronic busses, Control Vision 
(Anywheremap) and talked to their lead engineer.  It seems that our 
Ducatis do not play well with a PTC controlled circuit.  I don't know 
that much about PTCs but essentially they are a PNPN type silicone 
transistor of sorts that as voltage is applied, internal resistance in 
the PTC builds (causing heat) and if too high of a current is applied, 
it hits its switching temp and the resistance in the PTC goes up 
exponentially.  Effectively shutting off power due to high resistance.  
Once power is removed from the PTC, it resets itself.  Kind of like a 
Thyristor, and like a switch.  These items are affected by bus voltage, 
panel temperature, power pulses and because they have internal 
resistance can lower the C voltage causing the regulator to overvolt.

Since most of these automatic busses have over voltage protection (OVP) 
if the regulator puts out too much voltage due to the control voltage 
drop, then the buss shuts down the C voltage to the regulator to stop 
the overvoltage condition.  The Alt warning light comes on (no volts at 
the C terminal) and the regulator is shut off.
The only way to reset the Alternator Control PTC is shut off the Master 
Switch, killing power to the bus.  NOT my favorite thing to do at night 
or with an EFIS, as all goes tumbling into the night until we get power 
back.  (That's why its smart to have a battery back up.)

Our solution was to wire the Alternator and Battery leads from the 
firewall studs to the EXP bus.  Eliminating the OVP protection but safe 
as the Ducati/Rotax just can't produce over 15 volts.  Then run a wire 
---From the R+/B from the stud to the alternator switch and then to the C.  
This allows for independent control of the regulator should it have to 
be shut down in flight.  Once the Volts from the fresh battery and the 
resistance of the PTC alternator supply spade and OVP was removed from 
the control circuit, all is well so far even with a 12.5 volt Odyssey 
battery in the system.

One other problem, which is my nasty habit, is after engine start, I 
immediately engage the avionics bus switch (EFIS and Garmin 430s take a 
while to boot).  I was chastised by an automotive friend of mine.  After 
engine start, the battery is of course down for a few seconds.  At idle, 
the the Rotax alternator is supplying very little power, and the 
regulator circuits go wide open delivering power to the battery for 
charging.  Normally a good battery in summertime takes 10-15 seconds to 
recover at 13.6 volts, but our little birds can barley meet 12 sometimes 
unless we spin up the RPM to 2500.  In winter, more time is necessary 
for the battery to recover.  So the regulator stays in wide open mode 
trying to supply voltage it can't, and it preheats the regulator 
circuit.  He commented that a little patience (something I do not have) 
by checking of the engine instruments after start and then the status of 
charging on the Ammeter and volt meter would show me the battery state 
before I slammed the bus on.  So I am now going to spool up the engine 
to 2500 and let it run there until the amps fall off and the volts 
stabilize, then turn on the avionics goodies.  I tried the operation on 
Gary's plane and sure enough, the battery took a good 10 seconds to 
recover from start.  Then I spun up the engine, smacked on the avionics 
(10 amps or so) and the regulator took it all in stride.  12 AY also 
responded quite well to the same procedure and cured my EFIS hang-up 
during start. 

In a nutshell, Ducatis are a bit fragile.  Keep the battery well charged 
(and properly charged by the battery manufacture's recommendation), have 
a little patience and let the battery recover before turning on all the 
power hogs.  Pay attention to the R/B+ to C voltage on panel install to 
avoid problems.

If the Ducati is expected to produce 15 amps below 5000 RPM, you may in 
fact find that they only last a year or so.  SH seems to know all this, 
but the translation is a bitch.
I hope to test one of these units and see how they hold up soon.

Odyssey battery owners should check out the 
www.odysseybattery.com<http://www.odysseybattery.com/> site for proper 
storage, charging (and chargers) and recovery of these batteries.  
Trickle chargers are not the best for these batteries.

Regards,
Bud Yerly 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: GRAHAM SINGLETON<mailto:grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> 
  To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com> ; 
PaulMcAllister<mailto:paul.the.aviator@gmail.com> 
  Sent: Friday, January 17, 2014 6:11 PM
  Subject: Re: Europa-List: Other items on the Silent-hektik web site


  That looks very nice! Bout time too!
  Graham


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
  From: houlihan 
<houlihan@blueyonder.co.uk<mailto:houlihan@blueyonder.co.uk>>
  To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com> 
  Sent: Friday, 17 January 2014, 22:30
  Subject: Europa-List: Other items on the Silent-hektik web site


  Following on from the regulator item have a look at this on their web 
site


http://www.silent-hektik.com/UL_912_1.htm<http://www.silent-hektik.com/UL
_912_1.htm>


  My German is non existent so I may have got this all wrong.


  Tim 
httphttp://www.matronics.com/contribution===========
=


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http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>



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