Thanks for that Kevin don't suppose you remember what you did with the
throttle do you ? ......Mine starts hot on the ground with half throttle
just instantly.
I don't believe it's necessary for each one of us to experiment when the
information is readily available(except there will be a slight variation
between different props as well as engines obviously the main ting is to get
it restarted and surely the starter would be more instantaneous and the
windmill effect would only be needed in the event of the starter failing for
whatever reason .. Actually I'm surprised it starts anyway with the gearbox
effect! The Direct drive on the Jabiru was as if nothing had happened!.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
Klinefelter
Sent: 25 June 2013 00:30
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Use of reserve tank
--> <klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com>
Hi Terry and all,
I stopped my 914 a couple days ago,feathered the Airmaster and went for a
long glide. Windmill start happens at about 90 knots.
I was doing touch and goes a while back in my Mono and ran out of fuel on
the main just after liftoff. No problem, I just landed on the remaining
runway, but that really got me thinking! I didn't realize my fuel was quite
that low. So now my Takeoff and Landing checklist includes fuel selector on
reserve.
Kevin
On Jun 24, 2013, at 2:25 PM, "Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys@cisco.com>
wrote:
> --> <terrys@cisco.com>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> We have shut the engine down in flight with both the Whirlwind CS prop and
the Airmaster. In both cases, the prop stops turning just above 50 knots,
and once stopped, does not begin wind milling again until a little over 100
knots. This is with the 912S, which has higher compression than the 914, so
your numbers may vary from this.
>
> Regards,
> Terry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
> Harrison
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 1:48 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Use of reserve tank
>
> --> <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
>
> Hi! Terry /all.
> I had an unplanned such event but with the direct drive Jabiru 6 fitted. I
have a long range tank fitted and although full did a wing over to position
for a photos shoot of a hotel as we left Majorca. Unbeknown that stopped
the siphon from the long range tank to the main tank , About 2 hours later
over the Pyranees to the West Spanish coast we suddenly had total silence!
> Which is about the most sensitive thing that can happen to a powered
> flight pilot ! I estimate I lost about 50 feet of my then 5,000ft
> before the engine windmilled to start immediately. My friend with me
> asked what we would do to which I replied "you will need to turn round
> in your seat and pump that siphon hand ball to re-establish the siphon
> like you are milking a cow (or something like that !) When I could see
> the gauge was back reasonable again we switched to main tank but
> actually landed on the reserve tank by which time we knew was full to
> over flow the saddle. I must say I have never tried an in flight
> re-start with the gearbox Rotax Engine, I just don't like to tempt
> providence ! If someone has the minimum windmill speed of a
> 914 Rotax I'll be obliged to know ? and you would be doing me a real
service.
> Also If Mark Burton is reading this would he advise if the Woodcomp Prop
with the Smart Controller is likely to motor to fully fine in the event of
an abrupt un intended engine stop ?
> Happy Days !
> Best regards
> Bob Harrison. G-PTAG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry
> Seaver
> (terrys)
> Sent: 24 June 2013 19:19
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Use of reserve tank
>
> --> <terrys@cisco.com>
>
> I have one comment on the subject of allowing the main to completely run
out, then switching to the reserve. We did that once to check the procedure
in a safe, controlled, environment. The engine quit but was still wind
milling. After switching to reserve, the engine restarted and went to high
RPMs because the Airmaster CS prop had gone to full fine pitch when the
engine cut out, and took some time to recover once the engine restarted.
> The lesson of the story is, pull the throttle back to idle before
switching in the reserve tank.
>
> Regards,
> Terry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sidsel &
> Svein Johnsen
> Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 2:29 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: SV: Europa-List: Use of reserve tank
>
> --> <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
>
> Graeme,
>
> What we need to keep in mind is the following:
>
> When we run off the main tank, about 28-30 liters of fuel goes out per
> hour at cruise power (912ULS). Abt 10 of these liters return to the
> reserve tank (i.e. abt 1/3 of the total flow out of the tank), and
> flow back over the saddle into the main tank. This ensures that the
> reserve tank is always full, even if we should fly a little
> uncoordinated once in while or experience some bumpy turbulence, and
> the net drain from the main tank is
> 18-20 liters (or whatever the cruise consumption may be).
>
> What we should NOT do is switching to the reserve tank before we have
decided that "OK, this is it for the main tank, from now on it's only the
> reserve tank that will take me home." Take the following case: 9 liters
> in the reserve, 11 liters in the main. If this were the case during the
last part of a flight, we have 20 liters total, i.e. one hour's flying time.
> If due to uncertainty about actual volume remaining in the main tank, we
switch to the reserve tank (9 liters), then we have a little under half an
hour before the engine tells you something. If we now switch back to the
main tank, we suddenly do not have 11 liters consumable fuel there anymore!
> Why not? Because about 1/3 of that fuel is returned to the reserve tank,
but the returned volume does not any more overflow into the main tank
because the reserve tank first needs to be filled to its top. 10-15
minutes' flying time is thus lost, which could be critical (unless we are
conscious about this, and switches back to reserve again).
>
> What it all boils down to is knowing how much you have left in the main
tank, so we can confidently run this tank almost empty and switch to reserve
just in time before the engine tells you to, and then stay on the reserve
tank.
>
> I completely trust my fuel totalizer (feed and return flow senders) and
the sight tube. By the way, I have connected the two vent tubes (the one
---From the top of the sight tube and the one to the top of the filler neck) by
a crossover tube at their highest point. If one inlet should be blocked by
an insect or whatever, the other will provide equal pressure on top of the
tank and on top of the fuel in the sight tube. It is amazing how erroneous
the sight tube reading gets even with a very small pressure difference in
the standard tubing arrangement - just try it by blowing gently into one of
the outlets.
>
> /////////
>
> About return flow: I mentioned early this spring that I would re-wire the
fuel flow system so that I could get temporary direct reading of the return
flow only. I have the relay deck and the push button, but just have not had
the time to wire it in ........ Will do - will report!
>
> Regards,
> Svein
> LN-SKJ
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