Hi there all,
The club in which I was (and still am) flying owns an Ecoflyer 135CDI
from
Robin. The engine is the A Class Mercedes engine modified by Thielert
(now
Centurion). Performances and easy to fly were there till we discovered
the
many troubles and lack of reliability attached to the transformation.
Then
the maintenance costs increased dramatically, and this was part of the
failed over of Thielert.
Socata (previously a subsidiary of EADS and now part of Daher) built
from
scratch an engine 230HP turbo charged. Even if the staff in charge was
previously the one which mad the Renault 10 cylinders
leader in Formula One , it took them 10 years to make it reliable, but
still
very expensive=85
My conclusion is: an engine made for a car is not made to be installed
in a
plane!
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Gary
Leinberger
Envoy=E9 : vendredi 27 janvier 2012 15:58
=C0 : 'europa-list@matronics.com'
Objet : RE: Europa-List: Viking Aircraft engine
I looked at using auto engines in my Europa ' the applications (car
versus
airplane) are just so different. While the base cost of these converted
engines seems attractive, the problems soon run the cost (and the
aggravation) far above the cost of a Rotax - just started my 912S and
am
impressed with it. Like all German/Austria equipment, if maintained by
the
book, they seem to run forever. After nine years of building the last
thing
I want is to experiment with an engine generally backed by an
undercapitalized entrepreneur.
If you are just starting your build, my advice is to wait to buy. One
never
knows how long it will take to build and any savings in buying the
engine
earlier (prices do go up with inflation) are eaten up in maintenance on
dried-out o-rings and required updates that are standard for new
engines. I
looked at the 912S when I started the build in 2003 and it was $15K or
so
list, and in 2010 bought my engine for $23K (with all the bits and
shipping). This is about a 6% increase a year. But the engine is far
superior to the 2003 engines (the U.S. Army required a bunch of very
good
changes) and Rotax improved the engine in other ways. Several other
people
that bought early (and cheaper) are paying more in the long run for an
inferior early engine.
Gary Leinberger
A237
Hope to fly this spring.
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Zutrauen
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Viking Aircraft engine
fwiw, I've subscribed to his email group list and have been watching the
banter with interest. I too have heard not-to-good things about the
fellow.
His on-line demeanor, and his answers to my in-person questions to him
at
Osh two years ago suggest arrogance.
My issues with the design are 1- the prop turns the 'wrong' way. 2- he
uses
a rubber coupler in an attempt to deal with harmonic resonances, and
---From my
EAA chapter colleagues experiences (with other redrives) and also my
research on this topic, this damper will not be able to dissipate the
power
at the resonance peak (typically at lower rpms and power settings....
just
above idle) for any extended durations. When asked about this design he
didn't really answer it other than stating that the built-in fan
'blades' in
the starter ring gear were designed to cool it.
I think the Honda block has promise tho - it's the same engine that is
raced
in the amateur leagues, and also the same one they use in their outboard
marine engines.
Time will tell I guess whether his installation is more sound than his
previous efforts with the Subarus
Cheers,
Pete
On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 7:27 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
wrote:
<wdaniell@etb.net.co>
Yes I too looked at this option but as garry points out, and without
knowing
Eggenfelner, I saw a lot of negative stuff on the web and also you see
quite
a few of his engines for sale...being changed out for something else.
This
generates a significant degree of caution in me at least. He might well
have got it right this time.
I think the base Honda fit engine is a very interesting powerplant and
the
volume and quality control is unlikely to have the manufacturing
problems
that the aviation manufacturers have like dodgy cranks but I am
personally
am not up for the experimentation process required to get it flying.
There was a chap flying in Canada whose name escapes me with a
Honda/CAM100.
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry Stout
Sent: 26 January, 2012 20:54
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Viking Aircraft engine
This engine is being sold by Eggenfeller.........formerly selling the
Subaru
engine conversions. Those Subaru engines turned out to be completely
unreliable and downright dangerous. I know nothing about his latest
project, the Honda conversion, but based on his previous engines, I
wouldn't
trust him. Google his name and you'll get a real education.
Garry Stout
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 26, 2012, at 1:18 PM, William McClellan <wilwood@earthlink.net>
wrote:
<wilwood@earthlink.net>
>
> Bud or anyone,
> This seems to be a very nice engine for the Europa, a Viking Honda
aircraft engine. The Viking shop in in Edgewater, FL. Do you know
anything
about this engine? It is the Honda 1500 cc, 117 hp, 6300 rpm max,
2.33/1
reduction drive, fuel injected, liquid cooled, 178 lb dry weight, fully
developed package for aircraft use. The package includes 40A
Alternator,
Dual Engine controllers, Exhaust / Muffler, Air intake, K&N Filter,
Starter, Radiator, Oil cooler, fuel pumps and Engine mounting for your
airplane. The engine is fully assembled. $13,000 Looks like a very
good alternative to the Rotax. They haven't yet but likely to develop
retro
fitable turbo-charge down the road.
> Thanks,
> Bill McClellan
>
>
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
</o:sp; - The Europa-List Email Forum -
n/Subscription,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List</span -
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
http://forums.matronics.co=======
<http://forums.matronics.com>
<http://forums.matronics.com>
<http://forums.matronics.com>
<http://forums.matronics.com>
<http://forums.matronics.com>
Forum -
Navigator
to browse
List
Un/Subscription,
Browse,
Chat, FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
|