I tried many ways to reply to this thread to no avail...just a reminder that
the hard landing crinkled nose that resulted in center console damage photos
can be seen here:
http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=TonyPA184&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Europa-List Digest Server <europa-list@matronics.com> wrote: *
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Europa-List Digest Archive
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Total Messages Posted Mon 10/08/07: 11
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Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:17 AM - Re: Center console (John Cliff)
2. 02:27 AM - Re: centre console (Fred Klein)
3. 03:09 AM - Re: Autocad drawing of XS mono (G-IANI)
4. 03:34 AM - Re: Center Console (G-IANI)
5. 06:05 AM - Re: Out rigger latching postmortem (Graeme Smith)
6. 07:35 AM - Re: centre console (JEFF ROBERTS)
7. 10:49 AM - Re: Out rigger latching postmortem (Graham Singleton)
8. 11:22 AM - Re: Center Console (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
9. 11:40 AM - Re: Out rigger latching postmortem (Fred Klein)
10. 03:09 PM - Re: Out rigger latching postmortem (Paul McAllister)
11. 05:34 PM - Re: centre console (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
From: "John Cliff"
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Center console
Sometime around 2000 I enquired of PFA Engineering about the possibility of
cutting down the centre tunnel (on a Classic) in the vertical plane at the
same time as carrying out a taildragger conversion.
I was informally told they might not be too happy about that because they
weren't sure the front fuselage would be strong enough to cope with a very
heavy landing with engine now hung a long way in front of the attachment
point for the front wheels (the deeper the tunnel is the stronger a beam it
makes, vertically).
Evidently a Europa had suffered a wrinkled front fuselage some time before
that in a heavy arrival incident.
Much more in-service experience since then, of course.
John Cliff
#0259
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Subject: Re: Europa-List: centre console
From: Fred Klein
> We cut this console down but added several layers of bid to reinforce
> the inside. We then created the top with 5 layers of bid. It's secured
> with #10 screws and nut plates. The left seat was widened by
> reshapeing the left side of the console to allow for more leg room.
> This was done with 3 layers of bid over a center of 1/4 inch foam
> shaped to allow a right leg more room. As you can see it makes a great
> arm rest and a lot more room for toys. The fuel filters are located
> right under the arm rest and can be viewed in flight anytime.
Jeff...what an absolutely elegant mod...I salute you. I take it all
this was done prior to CM installation...(?)
Fred
A194
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________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
From: "G-IANI"
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Autocad drawing of XS mono
On behalf of the Club I hold Autocad drawings for the Europa. These are
available on the CD sent to new members. We have both mono and Trigear
and the Hi-Top outlines. They are reasonably accurate but the factory
confused some of the classic details with the XS. They have been
checked where detail was needed. I also have a range of other detailed
drawings for areas such as the foot wells, the 914 engine etc.
Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear
Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com
-----Original Message-----
does anyone have a good Autocad drawing of the XS mono.
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
From: "G-IANI"
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Center Console
The centre tunnel has been reduced or reshaped in a number of aircraft.
I produced PFA mod number 10601 in 2002 and it is the only one approved
"all of type" by the PFA. This has not been converted into a standard
as it is complex. It modified the centre tunnel and the panel to match
and moved the location of the fuel cock. I have attached a PDF of the
drawing to give you some idea of what was done.
Barry Mellor, who did the original stress calculations on the aircraft,
did the stress calculations. I have machine readable copies of these if
they would be of help.
Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear
Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
From: "Graeme Smith"
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Out rigger latching postmortem
Paul,
Having suffered an overcentre locking failure, I can agree with your
sentiments. I agree that a taildragger configuration would be a great
improvement, do you have a suitable design/approved mod? I heard that the
PFA were not approving any more of the 'Swiss' modification until feedback
---From the ones that have already been implemented. Do you have any others in
mind?
Regards,
Graeme Smith
On 07/10/2007, Paul McAllister
wrote:
>
> paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
>
> Hi all,
>
> As some of you may recall I had an incident where my port out rigger
> didn't latch. I did some work on it this weekend and discovered that
> the head of a castellated nut had been catching the side of the W21
> outrigger plate.
>
> If you look at the drawing on the bottom left hand corner on page 9-23
> of the manual you will see that a AN4-11 drilled bolt passes through
> the top of the outrigger leg OR1 attaching it to OR4. The AN4-11 bolt
> is fitted with a AN310 castellated nut.
>
> What happening was that there was enough play where the bolt goes
> through the OR4 latch arm to allow OR1 to twist sideways so that the
> nut catches on the side of the W21 outrigger plate.
>
> What I did was to shorten the AN4-11 drilled bolt by 2mm and use a low
> profile castellated nut, I believe that they are designated AN320 (not
> certain). In addition I fitted another AN960-416L washer in the slot
> of OR1 to take up the slack between it and the OR4 latch.
>
> All seems well now, but I would encourage everyone to take a look on
> the inside of there W21 outrigger plate to check for signs of
> catching.
>
> I intend to fit a micro switch to detect gear down and locked, but I
> am afraid to say the the ultimate solution will be to convert my
> aircraft into a conventional tail dragger. Another instance of the
> outrigger not locking or the main gear over center lock failing is
> more than I would want to contemplate at some remote airstrip.
>
> Regards, Paul
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
From: JEFF ROBERTS
Subject: Re: Europa-List: centre console
>>
>
> Jeff...what an absolutely elegant mod...I salute you. I take it all
> this was done prior to CM installation...(?)
Yes,
This was all done before, but I cannot take total credit for it. There
we're several done this way at Flight Crafters in Florida. I just took
it to the next level by increasing the leg room at the side of the CM.
Now if I could just get all the cylinders to run at closer temps I
would be happy. Still working on that though. Looks like I'm going to
need to by the baffling that was supposed to be supplied with the
firewall forward kit that I never received. I believe I have run out of
other options. The engine is cooling but not evenly. If anyone out
there has a picture of one please post it. Maybe I can make it.
Regards,
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 90 hours.
>
> Fred
> A194
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
From: Graham Singleton
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Out rigger latching postmortem
Graeme
you might talk to Miles McCallum?
Graham
Graeme Smith wrote:
> Paul,
>
> Having suffered an overcentre locking failure, I can agree with your
> sentiments. I agree that a taildragger configuration would be a great
> improvement, do you have a suitable design/approved mod? I heard that
> the PFA were not approving any more of the 'Swiss' modification until
> feedback from the ones that have already been implemented. Do you have
> any others in mind?
>
> Regards,
> Graeme Smith
>
>
> On 07/10/2007, *Paul McAllister*
> > wrote:
>
> paul.the.aviator@gmail.com >
>
> Hi all,
>
> As some of you may recall I had an incident where my port out rigger
> didn't latch. I did some work on it this weekend and discovered that
> the head of a castellated nut had been catching the side of the W21
> outrigger plate.
>
> If you look at the drawing on the bottom left hand corner on page 9-23
> of the manual you will see that a AN4-11 drilled bolt passes through
> the top of the outrigger leg OR1 attaching it to OR4. The AN4-11 bolt
> is fitted with a AN310 castellated nut.
>
> What happening was that there was enough play where the bolt goes
> through the OR4 latch arm to allow OR1 to twist sideways so that the
> nut catches on the side of the W21 outrigger plate.
>
> What I did was to shorten the AN4-11 drilled bolt by 2mm and use a low
> profile castellated nut, I believe that they are designated AN320 (not
> certain). In addition I fitted another AN960-416L washer in the slot
> of OR1 to take up the slack between it and the OR4 latch.
>
> All seems well now, but I would encourage everyone to take a look on
> the inside of there W21 outrigger plate to check for signs of
> catching.
>
> I intend to fit a micro switch to detect gear down and locked, but I
> am afraid to say the the ultimate solution will be to convert my
> aircraft into a conventional tail dragger. Another instance of the
> outrigger not locking or the main gear over center lock failing is
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Graham Singleton
Tel: +441629820187
Mob: +447739582005
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean"
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Center Console
Ian,
Is that Mod with the underside of the fus skin cut out for the monowheel?
Obviously not if it is to work with the trigear. But if the a/c has been
converted from mono to TD, then it may have a big structural hole in the
underside that invalidates this Mod!
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "G-IANI"
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 10:32 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Center Console
>
> The centre tunnel has been reduced or reshaped in a number of aircraft.
> I produced PFA mod number 10601 in 2002 and it is the only one approved
> "all of type" by the PFA. This has not been converted into a standard
> as it is complex. It modified the centre tunnel and the panel to match
> and moved the location of the fuel cock. I have attached a PDF of the
> drawing to give you some idea of what was done.
>
> Barry Mellor, who did the original stress calculations on the aircraft,
> did the stress calculations. I have machine readable copies of these if
> they would be of help.
>
> Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear
> Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
> e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
> or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Out rigger latching postmortem
From: Fred Klein
On Monday, October 8, 2007, at 06:04 AM, Graeme Smith wrote:
> I agree that a taildragger configuration would be a great
> improvement, do you havea suitable design/approved mod?I heard that
> the PFA were not approving any more of the'Swiss' modification until
> feedback from the ones that have alreadybeen implemented. Do you have
> any others in mind?
Graeme,
You might check w/ Bob Berube at FlightCrafters.com...
Fred
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
From: "Paul McAllister"
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Out rigger latching postmortem
Graeme,
I intend to use the modification designed by Bob Berbue. I can
forward you on some photographs if that will help.
Paul
On 10/8/07, Graeme Smith wrote:
> Paul,
>
> Having suffered an overcentre locking failure, I can agree with your
> sentiments. I agree that a taildragger configuration would be a great
> improvement, do you have a suitable design/approved mod? I heard that the
> PFA were not approving any more of the 'Swiss' modification until feedback
> from the ones that have already been implemented. Do you have any others in
> mind?
>
> Regards,
> Graeme Smith
>
>
> On 07/10/2007, Paul McAllister
wrote:
> paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > As some of you may recall I had an incident where my port out rigger
> > didn't latch. I did some work on it this weekend and discovered that
> > the head of a castellated nut had been catching the side of the W21
> > outrigger plate.
> >
> > If you look at the drawing on the bottom left hand corner on page 9-23
> > of the manual you will see that a AN4-11 drilled bolt passes through
> > the top of the outrigger leg OR1 attaching it to OR4. The AN4-11 bolt
> > is fitted with a AN310 castellated nut.
> >
> > What happening was that there was enough play where the bolt goes
> > through the OR4 latch arm to allow OR1 to twist sideways so that the
> > nut catches on the side of the W21 outrigger plate.
> >
> > What I did was to shorten the AN4-11 drilled bolt by 2mm and use a low
> > profile castellated nut, I believe that they are designated AN320 (not
> > certain). In addition I fitted another AN960-416L washer in the slot
> > of OR1 to take up the slack between it and the OR4 latch.
> >
> > All seems well now, but I would encourage everyone to take a look on
> > the inside of there W21 outrigger plate to check for signs of
> > catching.
> >
> > I intend to fit a micro switch to detect gear down and locked, but I
> > am afraid to say the the ultimate solution will be to convert my
> > aircraft into a conventional tail dragger. Another instance of the
> > outrigger not locking or the main gear over center lock failing is
> > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> > believed to be clean.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: centre console
This is what I got with my Jabiru 3300A. If you would like pix of just the
cowls....let me know off-list and I'll take pix and send them to you.
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
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