Yes - I came out here for a year in 1993...and well one thing lead to
another and here I am, 14 years later with a half built kit in the garage.
I regularly travel with my purchases from ACS.
There is a thriving aviation community here and the flying is interesting -
in a two hour flight you go from 8500 agl to less than 1000 and back to over
14000 and then back to msl. - as a result it gets bumpy after about 0900 as
the winds get up.
Come and visit. We already had one club member visit last year. Also I met
a French guy in the local field with a 172 which he bought in Montreal. He
was on his way BACK from Patagonia (where he said the wind is routinely over
50kmh) ...
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
Singleton
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 18:55
Subject: Re: Europa-List: fiberglass cloth
<grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
William
I never realized you were in Colombia, I remember being at SnF the day
Ivan sold three kits to a Comobian family, farmers I think.
Interglas are in Ulm, Germany. www.pd-interglas-technologies-ag.de/
You might be able to buy from these people,Streifly, suppliers to the
glider industry. Interglas are probably too big for us.
http://streifly.de/Preise4-00.htm, I found them most helpful and good
price too.
I would be reluctant to use any old cloth, try and get one aproved by
either Rutan, (the Messiah {;-) or Europa. THe critical thing is the
chemiocal sizing of the yarn to enhance the wetting by the resin.
My favourite Guru is Gary Hunter, he was Bruce Bohannon's crew chief on
Pushy Galor and still is AFAIK. Very generous with his experience, he
worked for Shell Resins a while ago.
Graham
I've copied one of Gary's emails for you, I don't think he'll mind. As I
said, a generous man.
Technically, in the context of our canard aviation community, there is
absolutely no difference between what has been referred to as a
non-structural epoxy and a structural one. They are all from the same
molecules.
Numerous people had asked Rutan Aircraft Factory about using West
Systems Epoxy. After all, it was readily available in most parts of
country - and the world for that matter. Well, we all know that Burt
Rutan is rather liability conscious, and if a resin system had not been
tested and flown in an actual prototype or part of some sort, it was not
approved for his aircraft designs - PERIOD. So, if I recall correctly,
one of Rutan's Canard Pusher newsletters, responded to the builder
inquiries and West Systems was dubbed a "non-structural" epoxy. It was
OK for making micro fill and wheel pants and such. But, no major
structural components.
Furthermore, the makers of West System (Gougeon Brothers - pronounce
goo-zhan)did not seem to promote the use of the West Systems product
line for aircraft construction. Gougeon Brothers is a customer of
mine. So, about 3-5 years ago, I quizzed them on why this was so. They
said that in years past their insurance underwriter did not want the
liability associated with homebuilt aircraft. The product was intended
for the boat building, repair and restoration market. However, they
had recently secured another insurance underwriter that did not have
such reservations about homebuilt aircraft. In fact, their website had
a photo gallery of the many different projects their customers had
completed using the West Systems epoxy, and many aircraft were included
- mostly wood / fiberglass aircraft, like the KR2s, and Ospreys and
such. I don't recall seeing any Vari-Eze's or Long-EZ's. Today, if you
visit the Gougeon's West Systems home page http://www.westsystems.com ,
there are numerous examples of all composite structural articles being
made from the West Systems product line.
At about the time I was quizzing Gougeon about the West Systems epoxy,
they were introducing their new Pro-Set epoxy product line. Apparently,
they had recognized a new market was emerging and decided to put their
best foot forward. This product line was developed for more demanding
end-uses including all composite aircraft. Rutan did approve one of
their early formulations for the construction of his plans designs -
the Pros-Set 125 / 229. The website for Pro-Set shows a photo of the
Proteus that was made from Pro-Set resins formulations.
http://www.prosetepoxy.com Note the statements about post cures in
their literature.
Frankly, I cannot understand why anyone would pay so much for the
convenience of being able to buy an epoxy at the local marine or auto
supply. West Systems is at least $3.00 / lb. more expensive than the
most costly alternative "structural epoxy". But, some people drive
Fords, and some people drive Mercurys.
One thing is for certain. Gougeon Brothers is perhaps the industry
benchmark for technical support. Their on-line literature, books,
manuals, and newsletters are top notch - excellent reading. They even
sell ratio pumps for their Pro-Set resin systems.
Gary Hunter
Technical Service Representative EPOXY RESINS TECHNICAL INQUIRY
RESOLUTION PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS
Toll Free in North America - 800-832-3766
International - 281-544-6010
Facsimile - 817-421-7515
Email - tec.epon@resins.com
William Daniell wrote:
>
> Interglass is based where?
>
> Is there any "standard" means of describing cloth?
>
> Does 92125 mean anything or is it a part number?
>
> As usual my eternal problem is getting stuff in sunny Bogota!!
>
> For example the cloth that Andy suggested is ACS part number 7781
described
> as "8.92 oz per sq yard medium weight standard industrial cloth thread
count
> 60x54 strength 350x330 lb/in" is this a standard way of describing cloth?
>
> Would any cloth fulfilling these characteristics do?
>
> Will
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
> Singleton
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 13:45
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: fiberglass cloth
>
> <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>
>
> Rutan chose it because it was used for gliders in Germany. Probably
> still is, 92125, it's made by Interglas and it's a 2 by 2 twill (for
> drape). The UNI we use is 92145.
> I recently ( 4 years ago!) bought half a roll of BID from a supplier in
> Germany but haven't yet re found the details. Price was very good
> compared to UK prices.
> Graham
>
> EuropaXSA276@aol.com wrote:
>
>>I was told by Europa some time ago that the closest thing for the
>>factory BID was the Rutan cloth RA7725
>>
>>Brian Skelly
>>Europa XS TriGear #A276
>>North Texas USA
>>You can see my build photos at:
>>http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
>>
>>
>
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>
--
Graham Singleton
Tel: +441629820187
Mob: +447739582005
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