Duncan, Bob will no doubt give you chapter and verse if he is not too
busy, but my understanding is that he was tucked into a small recess at
the bottom of high, near vertical cliff, which stopped mobile phone,
radio & PLB 121.5 access and degraded GPS accuracy. A helicopter was
sent out but only went along the land side of the coastline and failed
to see him. They might well have been handicapped by the plane having
taken off from an unmanned airfield so there was no traceable record of
him having gone or where he might be going.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2017-11-02 09:42, ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net wrote:
> Was there any resolution as to why, after G-BYSA 'landed' in the North Sea
> coast
and set-off its PLB, nobody ever came?
> I appreciate that most alerts (particularly in a marine environment) are false
alarms, but are alerts screened in this way?
>
> Duncan McF.
> ----Original Message----
> From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
> Date: 02/11/2017 09:09
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subj: Re: Europa-List: Re: ELT
>
> Raimo, Yes of course I have looked down on those very remote and rugged spaces
in Finland and we do infact have some equally remote and unlandable places in
the UK (try flying round all the remote Scottish islands), but it doesn't alter
the point that there are few landings where you are not either dead or able
to use a PLB. Two or three hundred euros invested in a Smartass is much more
likely to save your life than a similar amount spent on an ELT in addition to
a PLB.
>
> Much tempted by the idea of some more Aviation beer and Sauna in 2018.
> Regards,
David
>
> PS We shouldn't really get into a 'Mine's bigger than yours' sort of argument,
but I find that it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 660nm top
to bottom of UK!
>
> On 2017-11-01 21:09, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
> Dear David, you are right as usually, but however, think about accident in the
remote place (and you have not launched your PLB),
> ELT is your only hope (if you happen to be alive) . I do understand that it is
not so easy to you to understand there are really unpopulated places in the
world.
>
> Like Finland. You have flown here a lot. Think.
>
> Really, all the pilots are not flying in the Great Britain!!!
>
> (which is a very little put populated - island somewhere).
>
> For example Me, after not-so-succesfull landing to any remote private strip
> here
with my monowheel.
> To my home strips, where there are people available from hundreds of meters.
They just look, maybe!!!
> Raimo has left his aircraft there, and same time I am loosing maybe my life!
In that case, ELT were superb.
>
> So far, I have had about 600 landings with my Mono, and still one prop
> (AirMaster).
>
> David, Im pretty sure You get it!
>
> Go on! I know you can have your burst!
>
> Or, maybe you need a real Finnish Sauna to get out your real Europa Mind?
>
> ***
> About me /my status:
>
> - my Europa OH-XRT is still not flyable but will be during early 2018 *
> - my Lamco OH-U666 (a bushplane) is flyable now finally after my crash one
> year
ago
> - my very Beloved Cesna OH-CVK (which I owned 1996-2012) is here back again.
> - my Antonov AN-2 HA-MDO is in Sweden, but it will be soon here.
>
> David,
> pls fly here duging The 2018 - the cows are away!
>
> Just land EFRT 12/30 or 03/21 if you like so.
>
> Raimo
> OH-XRT
> Finland
>
> davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 20:58:
>
> Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine woes are
> sorted
and that we can look forward to more accounts of your fascinating flying
exploits.
>
> Although there is always great sense in what you say, in this context I would
take a slightly different approach. I would say there are two sorts of 'typical'
- firstly the sort of accident where you walk away from it and don't need
much in the way of help - or if you do then you are in a state to work your
mobile,
or your PLB assuming you have landed in orderly fashion either in mid ocean
or in a remote part of Finland (and there is plenty of that!). The other sort
of typical is sadly the sort of accident you do not walk away from and very
few of those are survived with or without an ELT. Sadly some 2% of us (i.e.
GA pilots in general) die from stall/spin accidents, entirely unsurviveable. My
plea would be for folk to address that possibility more seriously. Prevention
is the answer, not an ELT to get help more quickly after the event. There are
suggestions of how you can address this issue on the (beautiful new) club
website
in the 'Flying' section.
>
> Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
>
> On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
> Hi Jon,
>
> I do agree.
>
> One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work
> automatically
after your critical impact.
>
> Its easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch on your PLB
or you even forget to do it during your possible more or less panic situation
>
> (when trying to survive out from your disaster).
>
> Whats a typical accident? Its during take off or landing. If shit happens
> then,
PLB is useless!
>
> PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up altitude,
or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote
>
> (thats potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically empty [wolves
will not call emergency, they just eat you]).
>
> I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between Finland and
> Sweden.
That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without islands.
>
> Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 (Swedish female
ATC love my request to use it and thats why I have no Turbo),
>
> but in the case of silence with my best glide ratio (1:17, w featherable
> VSuperb
AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically about 35 km in theory.
>
> So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when its easy to monitor your
engine and listen strange sounds...
>
> (in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music through
my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour).
>
> I would like to say:
>
> ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra...
>
> (isnt it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinking things
> like
that, should be vice versa...) Cheers,
> Raimo
> Finland
> OH-XRT
> The fastest Europa ever build
> (and only 4-seater)
>
> italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30:
>
>
> Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for
a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable
source,
someone who is involved in the SAR industry.
>
> For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.
>
> With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they
> have
all information readily available through the registration authorities. On
a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.
>
> I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On
> the
ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that
was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three
additional
people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the
PLB is activated.
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097 [1]
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