If I might ask, which totalizer did you chose?
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 5, 2018, at 7:27 AM, crouto <crouton@well.com> wrote:
>
>
> I tried it with just the footwell lndicator. Bubbles made it inaccurate. I
could purge it by horsing the airplane into a very steep zoom. The bubbles
could
be seen climbing the gauge tube but in addition to the anxiety suffered by
the passenger, it did not always completely purge the gauge system.
> So I put in a totalizer and 1 red cube thinking I could factor in the return
amount. I couldnt.
> So in went another red cube in the return line and, hey presto, fuel added
> equals
fuel used. I have a straight 912 and a long ranger tank. In a 24 gallon
burn (indicated) the added fuel is within 0.3gallon less than indicated. I
consider
this a safety margin and have no plans to mess with it.
> The footwell tube is useful for indicating the aircraft is fueled, but in the
monowheel tail down stance it is not an accurate quantity gauge. By the way,
since the installation of the long ranger the bubble problem seems to have
nearly
disappeared. Go figure.
> Creighton Smith A-009
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jun 4, 2018, at 2:34 AM, Europa-List Digest Server
>> <europa-list@matronics.com>
wrote:
>>
>> *
>>
>> =================================================
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>>
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>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
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>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Europa-List Digest Archive
>> ---
>> Total Messages Posted Sun 06/03/18: 5
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Today's Message Index:
>> ----------------------
>>
>> 1. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Management (Bud Yerly)
>> 2. 08:02 AM - Re: Gurgling (burping) (Bud Yerly)
>> 3. 09:09 AM - Static problem? (h&jeuropa)
>> 4. 10:11 AM - Re: Static problem? (Robert Borger)
>> 5. 11:46 AM - Re: Gurgling (burping) (JonathanMilbank)
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 1
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> From: Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com>
>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Fuel Management
>>
>> I couldn=92t agree more with your comments on the EI 5 fuel totalizer with
>> differential module.
>>
>> I have a sight gauge as depicted on my website.
>>
>> I have had a capacitance gauge from GRT / Princeton
>>
>> I have the EI 5 fuel totalizer.
>>
>>
>> Painfully, I calibrated my tank (marks on the tank, sight gauge, and a capa
>> citance sender.
>>
>>
>> Capacitance: If I change fuel from AV Gas to Premium Auto, it read in err
>> or. I have marks on the outside of my probe for calibration so I could ben
>> ch check it, it reads different based on ethanol content, or none, MOGAS or
>> AV Gas as bench checked and in the aircraft. What a pain. If there is to
>> o much ethanol (10%) or water it kills my capacitance probe. I replaced it
>> , now it is intermittent and I again in frustration I pulled it and plugged
>> the hole in the tank top with a bolt. Great trend indicator when it worke
>> d, I either had gas or not, and nothing accurate in between beyond the firs
>> t fuel type change. Bad luck I suppose. The Europa resistance gauge is f
>> airly accurate as it is designed for the tank shape, but again, is a trend
>> indicator and not able to be calibrated by the builder.
>>
>>
>> My sight gauge has been re-plumbed to prevent fuel trapping as my vent side
>> of the gauge resides in between the tank and the fiberglass module top. I
>> f a bit of fuel trapped in that vent side doesn=92t drain down, it moves my
>> gauge by the size of the trapped fuel. Now with my slight gauge re-plumb,
>> it runs almost completely down hill and is damned adequate. However, I s
>> till have to open the cap, blow in the vent nipple, and then the gauge is
>> accurate after every fill. I now run the plumbing completely down hill and
>> fuel trapping is still possible during steep climbs and won=92t clear unti
>> l back to level flight for a while.
>>
>>
>> The EI FP5 I own was calibrated out of the box. I have two flow scans for
>> the 914, one on feed and the other on return. If I put 15 gallons in the t
>> ank, the EI reads zero as the pumps cavitate.
>>
>>
>> In my building experience, I followed convention on using one fuel cube/flo
>> w scan for the Jabiru or Rotax 912 series. Since the Jab has no return it
>> is fairly accurate and of course the return, which is unmetered in the Rota
>> x 912 series, is an estimate on fuel at best. It does give a total which i
>> s lower than actual, which is OK, I guess.
>>
>>
>> A couple of years ago we did do a return on the Rotax 912 (80 HP) on Creigh
>> ton Smiths aircraft and it has proven quite reliable. His unit was a Fligh
>> t Data Systems unit called the FC 10 with dual fuel flows (red cubes). It
>> worked very well even with the very low fuel flows of the 912. I had neve
>> r heard of Flight Data Systems and the unit is a bit on the cheap looking s
>> ide, but it works well for less than my EI 5FPL with differential module.
>>
>>
>> For those with the GRT EIS engine monitor, it can be rewired to allow two r
>> ed cubes or flow scans if not purchased with fuel flow in mind. It is also
>> adjustable but time consuming to get dead on unless you let the factory se
>> t it. Dynon I understand is using the red cube and my RV friends seem to l
>> ike it on the O-320. The LSA guys with only one cube are not impressed wit
>> h the accuracy on the 912S and those with two report it is OK, but not able
>> to calibrate it for some reason. I never researched it.
>>
>>
>> Bottom line,
>>
>> I have had four fuel quantity determining possibilities:
>>
>> My watch ( I have 3 hours at low cruise ((4.5/hr)) and 2.5 at high cruise
>> (5.5/hr))
>>
>> My sight gauge.
>>
>> My EI fuel flow, and time until empty based on the amount I put in and inpu
>> t.
>>
>> My now defunct capacitance panel gauge (which was just replaced with dual E
>> GT) has been hit or miss.
>>
>>
>> I am the department of redundant redundancy on fuel and have found the most
>> accurate fuel device is my fuel flow and a watch.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Bud Yerly
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
>> s 10
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
>> onics.com> on behalf of graeme bird <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk>
>> Sent: Friday, June 1, 2018 2:44:54 AM
>> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel Management
>>
>>
>> My conclusion was the same and I went on a journey with this whole thing:
>> First I moved the pipe to come up between the seats; this has proved useful
>> for seeing how much fuel I have when in the hangar before I fly although s
>> ometimes an air bubble in the and fuel in the vent for the pipe means the r
>> eading is misleading. Its affected by where the plane is parked - inclinati
>> on so I check it at the same place in the hangar. Occasionally I have used
>> it to second check in flight. When the fuel is low (below 18ltrs), its hard
>> to see.
>>
>> Then I installed a capacitive sensor in the tank with a gauge. This is kind
>> of useful as a second check and reliable but the scale is way off due to t
>> he tank shape. Its also hard to get a good seal on the sender flange. I kee
>> p meaning to add a lineariser circuit on it.
>>
>> Then I have a differential totaliser (EI 5PL or something); this has been g
>> reat and a pretty reliable indication of state, flow economy etc (so long
>> as fuel added is entered correctly). I tend to fill to the brim regularly t
>> o be absolutely sure of state.
>> So with the three indicators I got to a reasonable level of confidence. Not
>> sure i'd want to be without any of them now.
>>
>> --------
>> Graeme Bird
>> G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp 3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 a
>> xis AP, PAW, PFLARM core, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500, SD on
>> Nexus, SmartA3
>> 325 hours & 6 years on the Mono, 930 total
>> g@gdbmk.co.uk
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m
>> atronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D480546%23480546&data=02%7C01%7C%7C81e9
>> b4e0005b492422cf08d5c78ba9a4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
>> 36634325008274906&sdata=KDQyvIk2y1QfYfDSHuotqfvcVJq9GFbm9oJZAV87ZsU%3D&re
>> served=0
>>
>>
>> F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=02%7C01%7C%7C81e9b4e
>> 0005b492422cf08d5c78ba9a4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6366
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>> F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=02%7C01%7C%7C81e9b4e0005b492422
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>> 906&sdata=AMLOQDkXtGKo4WVYnV0FN04gaUtnsBrOELc9TIg1IZ4%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 2
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> From: Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com>
>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Gurgling (burping)
>>
>> Jonathan,
>>
>> It is not uncommon for the oil level in the tank to drain down overnight.
>> Even on a new engine. The tank can drain into the crankcase two ways on a
>> 912UL (S). If the tank is full, and the return line has oil in it, it siph
>> ons down into the crankcase until the siphon is broken. That is only a sma
>> ll amount of oil on the dipstick.
>>
>>
>> The other is through the feed line, through the oil cooler and into the oil
>> pump. The oil pump has tight clearances, but thin oil will drain quite ra
>> pidly through the pump into the crankcase via the many feed passages. You
>> are right, it could be a seal in the oil pump was not changed on your rebui
>> ld or the oil pump shaft has worn beyond limits (check service bulletin 912
>> -032). This internal seal leak doesn=92t show normally, until the oil pump
>> case to pump seal begins to leak. The case to oil pump is just sealed wit
>> h 515. This is an easy fix and all external and right up front for your me
>> chanic. So Look.
>>
>>
>> On the other hand, you would have low oil pressure if your pressure relief
>> spring/ball were stuck so I doubt that is a problem.
>>
>>
>> Lastly, if you have a feed oil line leak at the tank, or internal in the pu
>> mp, air is introduced into your feed line to the oil pump. This prevents o
>> il getting to the pump, but doesn=92t really affect the burp. If your oil
>> pressure comes up quickly and when you pull the plugs and spin the engine b
>> y hand, you get oil pressure, that is not a factor. That is a difficult is
>> sue to trace. The only way to check is try using light air pressure on the
>> oil tank overflow / vent line and remove listen for the oil moving or remo
>> ve the oil feed at the pump and check for air. I really doubt that is a pro
>> blem.
>>
>>
>> Note:
>>
>> I found Mobile one synthetic drained quickly and the Aeroshell Sport plus 4
>> less. I would not be concerned. BUT:
>>
>>
>> 50 blades on a 912S is quite a lot of spinning. (Normal for my old 914.)
>> If you pause on each compression, it should only be about 10 blades of spin
>> ning to get a gurgle, but that is only based on new (er) 912S engines. The
>> 912 and 914 tend to take more spinning to the verge of a heart attack on m
>> ine.
>>
>>
>> Do check for static leaks on your fittings as a Rotax will not leak oil ext
>> ernally unless something is wrong. If you have oil anywhere on the outside
>> of your engine, oil pump, gearbox, or oil cooler, please investigate and s
>> olve it. If all is high and dry, it is probably just that shaft oil seal o
>> n the oil pump is leaking internally. This is not a huge problem, but warr
>> ants checking.
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Bud Yerly
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window
>> s 10
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
>> onics.com> on behalf of jonathanmilbank <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 5:53:47 PM
>> Subject: Europa-List: Gurgling (burping)
>>
>>>
>>
>> My 912ULS engine has done 250 hours since complete strip-down and rebuild a
>> fter I bought it from an acknowledged Rotax engine expert. The three others
>> who share the Europa with me are all happy with how sweetly it runs. The c
>> ompressions were measured very recently and are excellent (close to 200 psi
>> ). The oil pressure is good being in the vicinity of 4 bar. BUT....
>>
>> Nine times out of ten the oil drains quickly (overnight) from the tank to a
>> level below the flat on the dipstick. This wasn't always so and has become
>> worse over time. It used to take about a dozen compressions done quite slo
>> wly to push the oil back into the tank, while these days it can often take
>> 50 or more compressions. Why?
>>
>> My supposition is that the oil escapes past the oil pump and the rate of es
>> cape depends on the position of the pump lobes when at rest. So if the oil
>> pressure remains good in flight, what's changed? Perhaps the oil pressure r
>> elief valve is sticking in some way?
>>
>> Your experience and knowledge of likely causes would be gratefully received
>> ..
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m
>> atronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D480527%23480527&data=02%7C01%7C%7C3d65
>> 8908e052457c65e808d5c6785195%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
>> 36633142417666692&sdata=hMIfL5dMQonZdtqvefaTxJDC7hsrnjywmpu%2BwZNmtDA%3D&
>> reserved=0
>>
>>
>> F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=02%7C01%7C%7C3d65890
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>> e808d5c6785195%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636633142417822
>> 944&sdata=SLnhhGEn%2FyvEFMqqI2pHgYIij6YNzplrGEJDwgbUBX0%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 3
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Subject: Europa-List: Static problem?
>> From: "h&jeuropa" <butcher43@att.net>
>>
>>
>> Two or three years ago our Garmin GMA 340 audio panel was damaged apparently
by
>> nearby lightning strike - we saw flash in far distance and then had to use
>> copilot
>> ptt. Garmin repaired for $600 and said it was destroyed by lightning.
>>
>> On our trip to Petit Jean we were in some precipitation and getting bounced.
ADSB
>> was showing lots of colors but it was just a short distance and ATC had
>> opposite
>> direction VFR traffic above us. Suddenly, no audio again. When we were
>> in the clear we found we could transmit by powering off the GMA 340 and hear
>> ATC with it powered on but in PA mode.
>>
>> We talked to SteinAir and purchased a new Garmin GMA 240 audio panel partly
in
>> hopes that the newer technology might be more resistant to being damaged and
a
>> new 240 was about the cost of repair of the 340.
>>
>> Stein, the owner, suggested we might want to add a single static wick to each
wingtip
>> and the top of the tail and connect them all together to our common ground
>> point using #20 or so wire. The idea to drain off built up charge.
>>
>> Has anyone else had a similar problem and whats the opinion on static wicks?
>>
>> Jim & Heather
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480604#480604
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 4
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static problem?
>> From: Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com>
>>
>>
>> Jim & Heather,
>>
>> I havent had that problem so this is all theory from a 70 year old physicist.
>>
>>
>> This is a really complex problem. You are flying a plastic, non-conductive
airframe.
>> Flying it through the air is like rubbing a plastic rod with a piece of
>> fur. Its going to generate a static charge. The charge resides on the outer
>> surface of the skin. No charge on the inter surface. Makes the skin of the
>> aircraft like a big capacitor. Because the airframe is non-conductive that
charge
>> isnt going to move around much until it reaches a breakdown voltage somewhere
>> and you can get a local discharge. Like through a an audio panel. Static
>> wicks out on the tips of the wings and empennage, even when connected with
>> conductive
>> media to the ground, will only dissipate the charge locally around the
>> wick. (Im not sure how well) And, I guess, maybe around the near field of
>> the conductor if it were bare wire. Would those wicks dissipate the charge
that
>> took out the audio panel? Maybe, but probably not. Might those wicks reduce
>> the overall charge and prevent a charge build up to ensure that there was
>> never
>> sufficient charge to harm the electronics? Maybe, maybe not.
>>
>> And, arent wicks supposed to dissipate the static charge off the airframe
>> into
>> the air, not to aircraft ground? The idea being NOT to get the charge
>> buildup
>> in the ground. I really dont see any benefit from static wicks on a plastic
>> airframe.
>>
>> Perhaps a better answer would be from Bob N. our electronics guru. He
>> probably
>> has far more direct experience with this type of issue.
>>
>> Blue skies & tailwinds,
>> Bob Borger
>> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (130 hrs).
>> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP, Hercules Prop.
>> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
>> Corinth, TX 76208-5331
>> Cel: 817-992-1117
>> rlborger@mac.com
>>
>> On Jun 3, 2018, at 11:08 AM, h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Two or three years ago our Garmin GMA 340 audio panel was damaged apparently
by
>> nearby lightning strike - we saw flash in far distance and then had to use
>> copilot
>> ptt. Garmin repaired for $600 and said it was destroyed by lightning.
>>
>> On our trip to Petit Jean we were in some precipitation and getting bounced.
ADSB
>> was showing lots of colors but it was just a short distance and ATC had
>> opposite
>> direction VFR traffic above us. Suddenly, no audio again. When we were
>> in the clear we found we could transmit by powering off the GMA 340 and hear
>> ATC with it powered on but in PA mode.
>>
>> We talked to SteinAir and purchased a new Garmin GMA 240 audio panel partly
in
>> hopes that the newer technology might be more resistant to being damaged and
a
>> new 240 was about the cost of repair of the 340.
>>
>> Stein, the owner, suggested we might want to add a single static wick to each
wingtip
>> and the top of the tail and connect them all together to our common ground
>> point using #20 or so wire. The idea to drain off built up charge.
>>
>> Has anyone else had a similar problem and whats the opinion on static wicks?
>>
>> Jim & Heather
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480604#480604
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 5
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Gurgling (burping)
>> From: "JonathanMilbank" <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk>
>>
>>
>> Bud,
>>
>> The outside of my engine and the oil cooler and tank are all free from all
>> traces
>> of leaks and the new hoses fitted a year ago are tightly clamped, so no air
>> leaks.
>>
>> I've taken your advice and looked at Service Bulletin 912-032, so this is the
avenue
>> that I'm probably going to investigate. Thanks very much.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480611#480611
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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