Greetings Tony,
Moving the plates isn't all that bad but you are right in it takes time
and patience. As for covering up your "curves" I prefer to see you
fill with an epoxy filler. Personally, if a customer mucks up the wood
shims, I fix it with Redux, set the socket and put peel ply around the
edges of the taped up socket. Peel the socket off smooth and glass it
up. Cover with your glass and peel ply well. Works fast and easy.
Redux is as good as ply and with the extra glass on top it is
bulletproof. To fill, you can use your expand cell with epoxy supplied
in the kit. Make it good and thick. I know that it takes longer, but
here is the reason:
Polyester resin and fillers will de-bond from epoxy. The rule is
nothing on epoxy but epoxy or polyurethane paint. If polyester filler
is used, it grips to rough surfaces and is best on metal , primer, or
other polyester. Vinylester sticks to poly, and epoxy sticks to
everything that is dry (no greasy poly please).
In experiments with my painter, polyester pops off epoxy gelcoat or
weave (heat cured or not) in about a month unless sanded very course,
but watch the edges, they are what de-bonds. All the filler MSDS sheets
indicate do not put poly on epoxy. Vinylester is a different animal.
It is a long molecule but not as long as epoxy. It will stick but will
flake off with bending. I have Evercoat Rage Vinylester filler on one
of my flaps as an experiment and have had no problem after 5 years. But
the Evercoat folks tell me it will eventually peel.
Caution: Any filler or even glass tape with a raw edge will lift when
painted with urethane. Always make sure you have a wet edge and peel
plied in a stress area like a wing walk area or it will show a crack.
Will it peel all the way, no but the inspection will have you grinding
on a newly finished airplane.
As a general rule:
Fill with epoxy/expand cell, finish the smooth out with a sanding block
to about 150 grit then prime. I fill pinholes by using Dupont 2K type
filler primer but any will do. Any further minor imperfections in our
experience are filled with a good quality glazing filler such as 3M,
over the primer to fill those small imperfections. Keep it very thin.
It sticks well, is fast and is easy to prime/sand/fill/prime to a
perfect finish.
Stay away from resin and talc as it is heavy and will peel off epoxy.
I hate to do wheel pants and the transitions. I swear it is faster to
fill the fuselage completely than wheel pants because of all the small
curves. Once my glass work is done, I fill initially with expand cell
and sand for a day. Once reasonably close, I prime, and break out the
Rage. By the end of the day, I am ready to prime. I prime and spot
fill/prime and shoot the polyurethane.
The cowl and doors are a baked ester resin, so Rage works on small dings
pretty well.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Renshaw<mailto:tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 6:08 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 06/01/13
<tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com<mailto:tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>>
Gidday,
Thanks to Richard Wheelwright, Richard Collings, and Ron Parigoris for
their replies regarding TE Lift Pin Sockets. I had to move all 4 of my
lift pin socket plates from the sides of the fuselage, due to them being
in the wrong position, and no, my dimensions are correct. A bunch of
other builders, well at least one other, have had to move plates. So,
the rear plates were extracted and moved from the outside due to access
with the cockpit module in the way. Suffice to say I have a buildup over
the plates that whilst over the top of the plates it is flat, as you
migrate outward, I have multiple plies of cloth including the mandatory
4 plies of BID for reinforcement. So, whilst I like curves of the
feminine sense, I hate them otherwise. I've got curves going off in all
directions and I'm just hopeless at the trial and error of shaping ply.
I have an admission, I love car bog. Polyester resin mixed with talc.
Easy to sand, easy to shape. I am wondering if rather than ply I coul!
d apply car bog over the plate area, shape it nicely, and then layup
over the top of it. It aint going to crack away or migrate anywhere as
it is captive by the BID, and should remain "in"compressible, certainly
no more than ply. Or, if the car bog is the issue, why not apply it,
shape it, splash it, fill it with redux and flox, and redux it back on?
I can build most of the kit but when it comes to multiple fit and sand,
fit and sand, etc, I know most will think it an easy thing, but I
struggle and simply don't enjoy it. So, any other options??
Regards
Tony Renshaw
Whingy Aussie
On 02/06/2013, at 5:01 PM, Europa-List Digest Server
<europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>> wrote:
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: Richard Wheelwright
<rpwheelwright@yahoo.co.uk<mailto:rpwheelwright@yahoo.co.uk>>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket
Mounting
>
> Tony,=0A--- Depending on the thickness you need. I used waste from
th
> e tri-gear leg sockets ribs. I cut a 2 1/2 inch circle with a hole
saw, the
> n it was cut down through its edge at the angel needed to contour
the side
> of the fuselage. Worked a
treat.=0A=0A===========
> =========0A=0ARichard
Wheelwright=0A======
> ==============0A
=0A=0A__________________________
> ______=0A From: Tony Renshaw
<tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0ATo<mailto:tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com%3E=0A
To>: europa-list@m<mailto:europa-list@m>
> atronics.com =0ASent: Saturday, 1 June 2013, 9:17=0ASubject:
Europa-List: R
> ear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting=0A =0A=0A-->
Europa-List messag
> e posted by: Tony Renshaw
<tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0A=0AI<mailto:tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com%3E=
0A=0AI> would like to r
> equest advice regarding methods of shaping the ply inserts for the
rear Tra
> iling Edge Lift Pin Sockets if anyone has digressed from the manual,
either
> by material/medium or method. Thanks.=0ARegards=0ATony
Renshaw=0ASydney Au
> ==================
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: "richard"
<rcollings@talktalk.net<mailto:rcollings@talktalk.net>>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket
Mounting
>
> I did the same as Richard W , I drew a circle on a piece of the 12mm
> plywood the same dia as the bracket tried it in place with the wings
in
> position then once I had the thickness correct blended out from the
> bracket circle to the edge this made the outside dia about 3 1/2
inches
> . Then glue and glass as per manual. Good luck Richard C
>
> From: Richard Wheelwright
> Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2013 9:55 AM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket
Mounting
>
> Tony,
> Depending on the thickness you need. I used waste from the
tri-gear
> leg sockets ribs. I cut a 2 1/2 inch circle with a hole saw, then it
was
> cut down through its edge at the angel needed to contour the side of
the
> fuselage. Worked a treat.
>
> ==================
>
> Richard Wheelwright
> ==================
>
> From: Tony Renshaw
<tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com<mailto:tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, 1 June 2013, 9:17
> Subject: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting
>
>
> <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com<mailto:tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>>
>
> I would like to request advice regarding methods of shaping the ply
> inserts for the rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sockets if anyone has
> digressed from the manual, either by material/medium or method.
Thanks.
> Regards
> Tony Renshaw
> Sydney st"
>
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://fo
> rums.matronbsp; nbsp; -Matt com/contribution"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket
Mounting
> From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us<mailto:rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
>
> Hi Tony
>
>
> "anyone has digressed from the manual, either by material/medium or
> method."
>
>
> Here's how I did it:
>
>
>
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=31838<http://www.europao
wners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=31838>
>
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
|