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Re: Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics

Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics
From: JEFF ROBERTS <Jeff@rmmm.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 11:50:25

Bill,
I have stalled my plane power on, power off, full flaps, and clean. We  
have never felt a wing drop. I use the standard Europa stall warner  
and it works well. I suspect as David points out that in the very slow  
or heavy turn would be the only way to get her into the spin.
BTW: I slip Gold Rush quit frequently and it works well to drop it in.

Just my two cents ;o)

Jeff R.  N128LJ Gold Rush

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is  
like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the  
handle.
-- Winston Churchill


On Aug 3, 2010, at 11:23 AM, David Joyce wrote:

> >
>
> Bill, I have only stalled my own mono XS Europa, but that I have  
> found is very benign in the stall in all configurations. The only  
> time that I have got into the start of a spin was when I  
> deliberately stalled it in a steep turn - for the experience. It  
> went very quickly into a spin, but that corrected itself  
> instantaneously with opposite rudder and easing the stick forward.  
> Otherwise a straight & level stall with flaps/gear down and the  
> plane balanced is a non event, with little tendency to drop a wing  
> and instantly sorted by letting go the stick. I find it entirely  
> well behaved in doing a full rudder side slip with flaps down for a  
> PFL.
>             I would suspect that the same would apply to any XS as  
> long as the wings have gone on at the same rigging angle, and the  
> builder hasn't chosen  a Cof G too far aft.  Classics of course have  
> much more wing shape variability and it might be that individual  
> ones are less well behaved. However my guess is that most stall spin  
> accidents have little to do with the stall characteristics of the  
> aircraft, but more to do with the enormous work load associated with  
> an engine failure shortly after take off, It is all too easy to  
> inadvertently be helping the turn round with excess rudder whilst  
> losing sight of the airspeed, because you are stressed big time and  
> desperately trying to work out several other things in your mind.
>          If you can get a ride in someone else's Europa (or when  
> yours is built)and go up to a safe height I think you will be  
> pleasantly surprised at how nicely it stalls and sideslips with full  
> flap. You will also probably find that the ground run on landing  
> barely exceeds 100metres, and much the same on take off if you have  
> 912S or 914, and a VP prop and are not too hot/high/heavy!
>         Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William McClellan" <wilwood@earthlink.net

> >
> To: <Europa-List@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 4:50 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics
>
>
>> >
>>
>> I understand that the Europa is very prone to abruptly dropping a  
>> wing, trying to enter a spin, when stalled with full flaps in the  
>> landing configuration.  On the other hand, in the clean, unflapped  
>> configuration the stall is very benign.  I wonder if this is true  
>> of all Europa's or only some depending on the particulars of that  
>> builders end product and possible modifications.  I have nearly  
>> 1000 hrs in a Citabria with very much of it flying into short  
>> "backcountry" dirt strips requiring significant STOL  
>> characteristics.  I don't have flaps so regularly use severe  
>> straight and banked slips.  The Citabria is a "dirty" plane  
>> compared to the "very clean" Europa so I believe the use of severe  
>> slips in the Europa is never warranted.  My experience with very  
>> clean planes, I also have 1000 hours in my high performance glider  
>> and since the air brakes work so well, severe slipping is not  
>> needed...though some less than ultra clean gliders, ie, trainers,  
>> can make use of severe slipping!
>> .  It seems likely that Cliff Shaw's accident was a result of this  
>> abrupt spin stall characteristic in landing configuration.  I have  
>> a rule (though not unique), "never skid a turn", keeping a nice  
>> margin above stall.  It seems that the Europa (and probably all  
>> super clean planes, for instance the Cirrus), have a propensity to  
>> severe stall spin in landing configuration.  I understand that many  
>> Europa pilots land with an airspeed up to 65 but this uses a  
>> greater landing distance considering the stall speed is in the  
>> 40's.  Europa's original touted mission was short field, pasture  
>> strips.  For those who often use this short field capability, I  
>> would like to know the particulars to make the Europa perform  
>> safely in this manner.  Not having piloted a Europa, but am close  
>> to finishing my build, I am curious to these questions.
>> Bill McClellan
>>
>>
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>
>



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