From willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk Mon Jun 2 12:32:11 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Instruments and pod for sale/for free Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:32:11 From: William Harrison I have a 2nd hand Europa instrument pod, quite scruffy but could be tidied up, free to a good home. Also, open to offers for all or any of the following: - a serviceable set of flight instruments (AI, T/C, ASI, ALT, VSI, DI). Average age 3 years. - a serviceable set of engine instruments (all the usual plus vacuum pump /regulator/filter etc) - a new, factory-made aluminium panel with cutouts for analog gauges. - a Garmin 295 - 6 months old (honest - it was a brand new, off-the- shelf unit I got as a service exchange unit when the old one died) - a Garmin Pilot III, plus all the usual fittings Contact me off line if interested: 01763 263 283 Willie Harrison G-BZNY (still waiting for dear friends in the LAA to issue a Permit to Test....) From kheindl@msn.com Wed Jun 4 18:00:36 2008 Subject: Europa-List: testing Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 18:00:36 From: Karl Heindl testing transmision

From christoph.both@acadiau.ca Wed Jun 4 14:38:44 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: testing Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 14:38:44 From: Christoph Both Works! Christoph Both EUROPA # 223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 2:01 PM Subject: Europa-List: testing testing transmision

From lgds@post6.tele.dk Wed Jun 4 20:01:22 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: testing Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 20:01:22 From: Lisbet og Gert Dalgaard Read you 5/5 :-))) GET / OY-GDS / Denmark Den 04/06/2008 kl. 19.00 skrev Karl Heindl: > testing transmision > >

> > From josoke@ukolo.fi Wed Jun 4 22:46:28 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: testing Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 22:46:28 From: josok Yes, it's silent. Everybody is flying or on holiday eh? Regards, Jos Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org From rlborger@mac.com Wed Jun 4 13:14:50 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: testing Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 13:14:50 From: Robert Borger Jos, Oh, that it were so... Just sitting here in the office, in front of a three-monitor seismic interpretation workstation, looking out the window at the sunny sky. Check six, Bob On Wednesday, June 04, 2008, at 03:07PM, "josok" wrote: > >Yes, it's silent. >Everybody is flying or on holiday eh? > >Regards, > >Jos From ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk Wed Jun 4 23:05:03 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: testing Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 23:05:03 From: Robert C Harrison Hi! Jos Since you are in contact......I just may be on my way to Barkaby on Friday Morning , we have struggled to get Ivors paperwork cleared, and my wife has been taken very ill but we are still in go mode .....I think. Please let me have your base 'phone number and mobile number for us to make contact. Regards Bon H G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of josok Sent: 04 June 2008 20:46 Subject: Re: Europa-List: testing Yes, it's silent. Everybody is flying or on holiday eh? Regards, Jos Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org From keithhickling@clear.net.nz Thu Jun 5 13:07:14 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Trailer Tie Rods Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 13:07:14 From: Keith Hickling Hi Martin, I have had a trailer made locally in New Zealand, based on the factory design. We have just used standard galvanized steel chain with galv turnbuckles for adjustment. My aircraft is not quite finished yet, but I have had the fuselage on the trailer and the chains / turnbuckles seemed to work OK. Keith Hickling. ----- Original Message ----- From: MJKTuck@cs.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 2:36 PM Subject: Europa-List: Europa Trailer Tie Rods Hi Folks, I'm fortunate to have a hangar for my Europa, but I do still use the Europa supplied trailer on occasion - usually to do my annual check, like I did today. I find that I always have a problem getting the tie rods to lock the ramp in place once the aircraft is on the trailer. Today they seem too short. I think it has something to do with the tire pressure. I seem to have run out of adjustment. Have any of you who use the trailer have a better tie rod method which is adjustable once the aircraft is on to 'take up the slack' - a chain maybe, or some other adjustable rod/linkage. Any ideas would be appreciated? Regards, Martin Tuck N152MT Wichita, Kansas From davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Thu Jun 5 11:50:57 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Le Touquet Saturday 28 June 2008 Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:50:57 From: David Joyce The trip to Le Touquet usually organised by theEuropa Club isn't happening this year, so I am opening the Gloucester Strut Le Touquet trip to anyone in the Europa fraternity who may be interested. A detailed briefing sheet is available which aims to provide anyone who has yet to cross the Channel with all the information needed to be able to face it with confidence. I can also probably (depending a bit on where the plane originates) arrange for me or someone to fly in loose formation with any 'Channel Virgin' who would welcome that sort of support. Experienced travellers are of course also welcome to come for the fun of it or to pick up some wine or a French tarte! The Strut trip will start from Gloucester or thereabouts and aim to be in Le Touquet by 12.30 local time (11.30 BST). There we normally rent bikes at the airfield and trundle gently into town for a fine Seafood lunch. Anyone potentially interested please contact me off forum and I will send full briefing details. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ From tony.bale@virgin.net Thu Jun 5 11:16:02 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Le Touquet Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:16:02 From: tony.bale@virgin.net David, We are thinking about going to Letouquet this weekend (weather permitting) but are a little concerned about VAT certificates etc as we do not hold such a document - any thoughts? also our Transponder is not currently functioning, and it is some time since I have been, do you know if one is mandatory? Thanks for any words of wisdom. Tony. Original Message: ----------------- From: David Joyce davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:50:57 +0100 Subject: Europa-List: Le Touquet Saturday 28 June 2008 The trip to Le Touquet usually organised by theEuropa Club isn't happening this year, so I am opening the Gloucester Strut Le Touquet trip to anyone in the Europa fraternity who may be interested. A detailed briefing sheet is available which aims to provide anyone who has yet to cross the Channel with all the information needed to be able to face it with confidence. I can also probably (depending a bit on where the plane originates) arrange for me or someone to fly in loose formation with any 'Channel Virgin' who would welcome that sort of support. Experienced travellers are of course also welcome to come for the fun of it or to pick up some wine or a French tarte! The Strut trip will start from Gloucester or thereabouts and aim to be in Le Touquet by 12.30 local time (11.30 BST). There we normally rent bikes at the airfield and trundle gently into town for a fine Seafood lunch. Anyone potentially interested please contact me off forum and I will send full briefing details. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail From grahamsingleton@btinternet.com Thu Jun 5 18:49:50 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: testing Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 18:49:50 From: Graham Singleton Robert Borger wrote: well, it sounds interesting Bob Graham > > Jos, > > Oh, that it were so... > > Just sitting here in the office, in front of a three-monitor seismic interpretation workstation, looking out the window at the sunny sky. > > Check six, > Bob > From davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Thu Jun 5 23:34:59 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Le Touquet Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 23:34:59 From: David Joyce Tony, Transponders are required in class D airspace in France. However Le Touquet itself has no radar so I strongly suspect that you would get away with it, and could in any case claim that you thought it was working. Officially from this year you need mode S to travel anywhere in Europe, although most countries including France, have not yet ratified the new regulations. I have no VAT certificate and am not awareof the need to have one. The PFA quotes schedule 11 of the ANO saying that the following documents should be carried on international flights: Certificate of registration Permit to Fly & Certificate of Validity Aircraft Radio License Flight crew Licenses Procedures to follow if intercepted It has always seemed wise to me to take a copy of your insurance certificate and also a noise certificate if you have one. Regards, David Joyce ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 4:16 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Le Touquet David, We are thinking about going to Letouquet this weekend (weather permitting) but are a little concerned about VAT certificates etc as we do not hold such a document - any thoughts? also our Transponder is not currently functioning, and it is some time since I have been, do you know if one is mandatory? Thanks for any words of wisdom. Tony. Original Message: ----------------- From: David Joyce davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:50:57 +0100 Subject: Europa-List: Le Touquet Saturday 28 June 2008 The trip to Le Touquet usually organised by theEuropa Club isn't happening this year, so I am opening the Gloucester Strut Le Touquet trip to anyone in the Europa fraternity who may be interested. A detailed briefing sheet is available which aims to provide anyone who has yet to cross the Channel with all the information needed to be able to face it with confidence. I can also probably (depending a bit on where the plane originates) arrange for me or someone to fly in loose formation with any 'Channel Virgin' who would welcome that sort of support. Experienced travellers are of course also welcome to come for the fun of it or to pick up some wine or a French tarte! The Strut trip will start from Gloucester or thereabouts and aim to be in Le Touquet by 12.30 local time (11.30 BST). There we normally rent bikes at the airfield and trundle gently into town for a fine Seafood lunch. Anyone potentially interested please contact me off forum and I will send full briefing details. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail From pete@lawless.info Fri Jun 6 08:05:06 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Le Touquet Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:05:06 From: Pete Lawless Hi Tony The VAT certificate comes in when you have a non EU registered aeroplane (N reg for example). You need to prove to the French customs that VAT has been paid on the aeroplane in the EU, otherwise they will demand payment. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce Sent: 05 June 2008 23:35 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Le Touquet Tony, Transponders are required in class D airspace in France. However Le Touquet itself has no radar so I strongly suspect that you would get away with it, and could in any case claim that you thought it was working. Officially from this year you need mode S to travel anywhere in Europe, although most countries including France, have not yet ratified the new regulations. I have no VAT certificate and am not awareof the need to have one. The PFA quotes schedule 11 of the ANO saying that the following documents should be carried on international flights: Certificate of registration Permit to Fly & Certificate of Validity Aircraft Radio License Flight crew Licenses Procedures to follow if intercepted It has always seemed wise to me to take a copy of your insurance certificate and also a noise certificate if you have one. Regards, David Joyce ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 4:16 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Le Touquet David, We are thinking about going to Letouquet this weekend (weather permitting) but are a little concerned about VAT certificates etc as we do not hold such a document - any thoughts? also our Transponder is not currently functioning, and it is some time since I have been, do you know if one is mandatory? Thanks for any words of wisdom. Tony. Original Message: ----------------- From: David Joyce davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:50:57 +0100 Subject: Europa-List: Le Touquet Saturday 28 June 2008 The trip to Le Touquet usually organised by theEuropa Club isn't happening this year, so I am opening the Gloucester Strut Le Touquet trip to anyone in the Europa fraternity who may be interested. A detailed briefing sheet is available which aims to provide anyone who has yet to cross the Channel with all the information needed to be able to face it with confidence. I can also probably (depending a bit on where the plane originates) arrange for me or someone to fly in loose formation with any 'Channel Virgin' who would welcome that sort of support. Experienced travellers are of course also welcome to come for the fun of it or to pick up some wine or a French tarte! The Strut trip will start from Gloucester or thereabouts and aim to be in Le Touquet by 12.30 local time (11.30 BST). There we normally rent bikes at the airfield and trundle gently into town for a fine Seafood lunch. Anyone potentially interested please contact me off forum and I will send full briefing details. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on MicrosoftR Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, and is believed to be clean. From tony.bale@virgin.net Fri Jun 6 03:15:42 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Le Touquet Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 03:15:42 From: tony.bale@virgin.net Thanks for that David, weather permitting we will pop over tomorrow. Regards Tony. Original Message: ----------------- From: David Joyce davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 23:34:59 +0100 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Le Touquet Tony, Transponders are required in class D airspace in France. However Le Touquet itself has no radar so I strongly suspect that you would get away with it, and could in any case claim that you thought it was working. Officially from this year you need mode S to travel anywhere in Europe, although most countries including France, have not yet ratified the new regulations. I have no VAT certificate and am not awareof the need to have one. The PFA quotes schedule 11 of the ANO saying that the following documents should be carried on international flights: Certificate of registration Permit to Fly & Certificate of Validity Aircraft Radio License Flight crew Licenses Procedures to follow if intercepted It has always seemed wise to me to take a copy of your insurance certificate and also a noise certificate if you have one. Regards, David Joyce ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 4:16 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Le Touquet David, We are thinking about going to Letouquet this weekend (weather permitting) but are a little concerned about VAT certificates etc as we do not hold such a document - any thoughts? also our Transponder is not currently functioning, and it is some time since I have been, do you know if one is mandatory? Thanks for any words of wisdom. Tony. Original Message: ----------------- From: David Joyce davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:50:57 +0100 Subject: Europa-List: Le Touquet Saturday 28 June 2008 The trip to Le Touquet usually organised by theEuropa Club isn't happening this year, so I am opening the Gloucester Strut Le Touquet trip to anyone in the Europa fraternity who may be interested. A detailed briefing sheet is available which aims to provide anyone who has yet to cross the Channel with all the information needed to be able to face it with confidence. I can also probably (depending a bit on where the plane originates) arrange for me or someone to fly in loose formation with any 'Channel Virgin' who would welcome that sort of support. Experienced travellers are of course also welcome to come for the fun of it or to pick up some wine or a French tarte! The Strut trip will start from Gloucester or thereabouts and aim to be in Le Touquet by 12.30 local time (11.30 BST). There we normally rent bikes at the airfield and trundle gently into town for a fine Seafood lunch. Anyone potentially interested please contact me off forum and I will send full briefing details. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint From butcher43@att.net Fri Jun 6 04:45:00 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel Sight Gague Tubing Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 04:45:00 From: h&jeuropa The factory supplied sight gauge tubing is polyurethane. After a couple of years I noted that it was getting quite hard. I searched the Tygon website and discovered "fuel line" tubing, Tygon 4040. I changed out the tubing in our Europa to that during our rebuild. I later discovered that Tygon 4040 was supplied with the Long Range tank, and the length of it installed in our main tank had become quite hard and opaque! Back to the Tygon website. There I found Tygon SE 200 which is PVC with a Teflon liner. Other web searches revealed that Teflon is the preferred material to resist gasoline. I purchased samples of Tygon SE200, 4040, Tygothane C210A (polyurethane without plasticizers) and Tygon 2075 (high chemical resistance) that I have been testing for about 3 weeks so far. I filled a 6 inch length of each with auto gasoline and sealed both ends. SE200 has lost the least amount of gasoline so far, about 1". 4040 has lost 4" and C210A has lost 3". 2075 was empty the next day! I also put short pieces of each in a jar of gasoline. 4040 and C210A haven't shown any change yet. SE200 the PVC has shrunk leaving a portion of the Teflon sleeve exposed at each end. 2075 has swelled up from it's original 1/4" ID to more than 3/8" ID. My conclusion so far, is SE200 is the best for a sight gauge or any application where fuel will not be in contact with the outside. Tygothane C210A is probably best where fuel will be in contact with the outside. This is based on my experience with 4040. I'm continuing the testing to see long term effects. All of the Tygon tubing is available from McMaster. Hope this helps. Jim & Heather N241BW getting close to flying again Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186467#186467 From josoke@ukolo.fi Fri Jun 6 19:14:34 2008 Subject: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 19:14:34 From: josok Hi All, Well, to let you know that i did it, landed with gear up. Just plain stupidity of course. As always, there was a build up of smaller mistakes, which should have warned me. But it ended with forgetting to put the gear down. The good thing is we walked away, and also the damage to the plane is minor. It looks like i will be flying home, with the prop of an other Europa from Kjell Skogeland. It's fantastic to get help so fast! Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org From fklein@orcasonline.com Fri Jun 6 12:10:01 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 12:10:01 From: Fred Klein > Well, to let you know that i did it, landed with gear up. Jos...my condolences, and thanks for your candor. Please do give us some more info when you've had a chance to sort it out. With the flaps coupled w/ the LG, I've hoped I would be immune to such an occurrence ...I suspect you can give some perspective to such naive thinking on my part. Fred -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From rlborger@mac.com Fri Jun 6 14:27:44 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 14:27:44 From: Robert Borger Jos, My most sincere condolences. Glad to hear no one was hurt and damage was minimal. Check six, Bob Sent from my iPhone On Jun 6, 2008, at 11:14, josok wrote: > > Hi All, > > Well, to let you know that i did it, landed with gear up. > Just plain stupidity of course. As always, there was a build up of > smaller mistakes, which should have warned me. But it ended with > forgetting to put the gear down. The good thing is we walked away, > and also the damage to the plane is minor. It looks like i will be > flying home, with the prop of an other Europa from Kjell Skogeland. > It's fantastic to get help so fast! > > Regards, > > Jos Okhuijsen > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > From karelvranken@hotmail.com Fri Jun 6 21:54:13 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 21:54:13 From: karelvranken Jos, An accident or incident is always a build up of coincidences where you have 50% possibility to end up at the bad side. Believe me I more than once was lucky and can easily imagine your misfortune. May you find the courage to repaire your beauty. Karel Vranken. ----- Original Message ----- From: "josok" Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 6:14 PM Subject: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... > > Hi All, > > Well, to let you know that i did it, landed with gear up. > Just plain stupidity of course. As always, there was a build up of smaller > mistakes, which should have warned me. But it ended with forgetting to put > the gear down. The good thing is we walked away, and also the damage to > the plane is minor. It looks like i will be flying home, with the prop of > an other Europa from Kjell Skogeland. It's fantastic to get help so fast! > > Regards, > > Jos Okhuijsen > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > From jimpuglise@comcast.net Fri Jun 6 20:21:44 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 20:21:44 From: jimpuglise@comcast.net Jos- Sorry to hear it and glad that everyone is OK. There are three kinds of retractable pilots: 1) Those that have, 2) Those that will, 3) Those that will again. The fact that you could fly it home says a lot about both the plane and your build. Jim Puglise -------------- Original message -------------- From: "josok" > > Hi All, > > Well, to let you know that i did it, landed with gear up. > Just plain stupidity of course. As always, there was a build up of smaller > mistakes, which should have warned me. But it ended with forgetting to put the > gear down. The good thing is we walked away, and also the damage to the plane is > minor. It looks like i will be flying home, with the prop of an other Europa > from Kjell Skogeland. It's fantastic to get help so fast! > > Regards, > > Jos Okhuijsen > > > > > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > > > > > >

Jos-

Sorry to hear it and glad that everyone is OK. There are three kinds of retractable pilots: 1) Those that have, 2) Those that will, 3) Those that will again. The fact that you could fly it home says a lot about both the plane and your build.

Jim Puglise

===== /BLOCK QUOTE>

From tony.bale@virgin.net Fri Jun 6 16:33:38 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Le Touquet Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 16:33:38 From: tony.bale@virgin.net Pete, how do you do that, does it mean you need all the receipts for the build? Regards Tony. Original Message: ----------------- From: Pete Lawless pete@lawless.info Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:05:06 +0100 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Le Touquet Hi Tony The VAT certificate comes in when you have a non EU registered aeroplane (N reg for example). You need to prove to the French customs that VAT has been paid on the aeroplane in the EU, otherwise they will demand payment. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce Sent: 05 June 2008 23:35 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Le Touquet Tony, Transponders are required in class D airspace in France. However Le Touquet itself has no radar so I strongly suspect that you would get away with it, and could in any case claim that you thought it was working. Officially from this year you need mode S to travel anywhere in Europe, although most countries including France, have not yet ratified the new regulations. I have no VAT certificate and am not awareof the need to have one. The PFA quotes schedule 11 of the ANO saying that the following documents should be carried on international flights: Certificate of registration Permit to Fly & Certificate of Validity Aircraft Radio License Flight crew Licenses Procedures to follow if intercepted It has always seemed wise to me to take a copy of your insurance certificate and also a noise certificate if you have one. Regards, David Joyce ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 4:16 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Le Touquet David, We are thinking about going to Letouquet this weekend (weather permitting) but are a little concerned about VAT certificates etc as we do not hold such a document - any thoughts? also our Transponder is not currently functioning, and it is some time since I have been, do you know if one is mandatory? Thanks for any words of wisdom. Tony. Original Message: ----------------- From: David Joyce davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:50:57 +0100 Subject: Europa-List: Le Touquet Saturday 28 June 2008 The trip to Le Touquet usually organised by theEuropa Club isn't happening this year, so I am opening the Gloucester Strut Le Touquet trip to anyone in the Europa fraternity who may be interested. A detailed briefing sheet is available which aims to provide anyone who has yet to cross the Channel with all the information needed to be able to face it with confidence. I can also probably (depending a bit on where the plane originates) arrange for me or someone to fly in loose formation with any 'Channel Virgin' who would welcome that sort of support. Experienced travellers are of course also welcome to come for the fun of it or to pick up some wine or a French tarte! The Strut trip will start from Gloucester or thereabouts and aim to be in Le Touquet by 12.30 local time (11.30 BST). There we normally rent bikes at the airfield and trundle gently into town for a fine Seafood lunch. Anyone potentially interested please contact me off forum and I will send full briefing details. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on MicrosoftR Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft Windows and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting From pete@lawless.info Fri Jun 6 23:08:16 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Le Touquet Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 23:08:16 From: Pete Lawless Tony you are making things too complicated. If you are on the UK register then they simply assume that VAT has been paid in the UK. You will be most unlikely to even see a customs man let alone talk to one. It is only going to be a problem if your aeroplane in not EU registered. Have a good lunch. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tony.bale@virgin.net Sent: 06 June 2008 21:34 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Le Touquet Pete, how do you do that, does it mean you need all the receipts for the build? Regards Tony. Original Message: ----------------- From: Pete Lawless pete@lawless.info Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:05:06 +0100 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Le Touquet Hi Tony The VAT certificate comes in when you have a non EU registered aeroplane (N reg for example). You need to prove to the French customs that VAT has been paid on the aeroplane in the EU, otherwise they will demand payment. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce Sent: 05 June 2008 23:35 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Le Touquet Tony, Transponders are required in class D airspace in France. However Le Touquet itself has no radar so I strongly suspect that you would get away with it, and could in any case claim that you thought it was working. Officially from this year you need mode S to travel anywhere in Europe, although most countries including France, have not yet ratified the new regulations. I have no VAT certificate and am not awareof the need to have one. The PFA quotes schedule 11 of the ANO saying that the following documents should be carried on international flights: Certificate of registration Permit to Fly & Certificate of Validity Aircraft Radio License Flight crew Licenses Procedures to follow if intercepted It has always seemed wise to me to take a copy of your insurance certificate and also a noise certificate if you have one. Regards, David Joyce ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 4:16 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Le Touquet David, We are thinking about going to Letouquet this weekend (weather permitting) but are a little concerned about VAT certificates etc as we do not hold such a document - any thoughts? also our Transponder is not currently functioning, and it is some time since I have been, do you know if one is mandatory? Thanks for any words of wisdom. Tony. Original Message: ----------------- From: David Joyce davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:50:57 +0100 Subject: Europa-List: Le Touquet Saturday 28 June 2008 The trip to Le Touquet usually organised by theEuropa Club isn't happening this year, so I am opening the Gloucester Strut Le Touquet trip to anyone in the Europa fraternity who may be interested. A detailed briefing sheet is available which aims to provide anyone who has yet to cross the Channel with all the information needed to be able to face it with confidence. I can also probably (depending a bit on where the plane originates) arrange for me or someone to fly in loose formation with any 'Channel Virgin' who would welcome that sort of support. Experienced travellers are of course also welcome to come for the fun of it or to pick up some wine or a French tarte! The Strut trip will start from Gloucester or thereabouts and aim to be in Le Touquet by 12.30 local time (11.30 BST). There we normally rent bikes at the airfield and trundle gently into town for a fine Seafood lunch. Anyone potentially interested please contact me off forum and I will send full briefing details. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on MicrosoftR Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium MicrosoftR WindowsR and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, and is believed to be clean. From kheindl@msn.com Sat Jun 7 00:02:36 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 00:02:36 From: Karl Heindl Jos, You are a brave man, telling us all about it. Especially, since you are suc h a perfectionist. Hope you get it fixed in no time. Karl

> Subject: Europa-List: there are pilots who have a nd ....> From: josok-e@ukolo.fi> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 19:14:34 +0300> To: sok-e@ukolo.fi>> > Hi All,> > Well, to let you know that i did it, landed w ith gear up. > Just plain stupidity of course. As always, there was a build up of smaller mistakes, which should have warned me. But it ended with for getting to put the gear down. The good thing is we walked away, and also th e damage to the plane is minor. It looks like i will be flying home, with t he prop of an other Europa from Kjell Skogeland. It's fantastic to get help so fast!> > Regards,> > Jos Okhuijsen> > > > > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwner ======> > > From jrgowing@bigpond.net.au Sat Jun 7 09:32:05 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 09:32:05 From: JR Gowing Jos! That's all it takes - a few extaneous things happening in the circuit and you forget.- I did all my glider checks one time - only in my head- the got to a metre from the ground whe Ib Braes shouted in the radio "Bob - The Wheel" and just saved me rippping off the UC doors. Hoope we both don' t do it again! JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Heindl To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 9:02 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... Jos, You are a brave man, telling us all about it. Especially, since you are such a perfectionist. Hope you get it fixed in no time. Karl

> Subject: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... > From: josok-e@ukolo.fi > Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 19:14:34 +0300 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > > Hi All, > > Well, to let you know that i did it, landed with gear up. > Just plain stupidity of course. As always, there was a build up of smaller mistakes, which should have warned me. But it ended with forgetting to put the gear down. The good thing is we walked away, and also the damage to the plane is minor. It looks like i will be flying home, with the prop of an other Europa from Kjell Skogeland. It's fantastic to get help so fast! > > Regards, > > Jos Okhuijsen > > > > > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > ========================> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 5/06/2008 6:29 PM From tony.bale@virgin.net Sat Jun 7 03:35:12 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Le Touquet Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 03:35:12 From: tony.bale@virgin.net Okay, i'll forget about the VAT. Weather looks rubbish here, so will save for another day - 28th sounds promissing. Thanks for the comments guys. ATB Tony. Original Message: ----------------- From: Pete Lawless pete@lawless.info Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 23:08:16 +0100 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Le Touquet Tony you are making things too complicated. If you are on the UK register then they simply assume that VAT has been paid in the UK. You will be most unlikely to even see a customs man let alone talk to one. It is only going to be a problem if your aeroplane in not EU registered. Have a good lunch. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tony.bale@virgin.net Sent: 06 June 2008 21:34 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Le Touquet Pete, how do you do that, does it mean you need all the receipts for the build? Regards Tony. Original Message: ----------------- From: Pete Lawless pete@lawless.info Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:05:06 +0100 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Le Touquet Hi Tony The VAT certificate comes in when you have a non EU registered aeroplane (N reg for example). You need to prove to the French customs that VAT has been paid on the aeroplane in the EU, otherwise they will demand payment. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce Sent: 05 June 2008 23:35 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Le Touquet Tony, Transponders are required in class D airspace in France. However Le Touquet itself has no radar so I strongly suspect that you would get away with it, and could in any case claim that you thought it was working. Officially from this year you need mode S to travel anywhere in Europe, although most countries including France, have not yet ratified the new regulations. I have no VAT certificate and am not awareof the need to have one. The PFA quotes schedule 11 of the ANO saying that the following documents should be carried on international flights: Certificate of registration Permit to Fly & Certificate of Validity Aircraft Radio License Flight crew Licenses Procedures to follow if intercepted It has always seemed wise to me to take a copy of your insurance certificate and also a noise certificate if you have one. Regards, David Joyce ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 4:16 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Le Touquet David, We are thinking about going to Letouquet this weekend (weather permitting) but are a little concerned about VAT certificates etc as we do not hold such a document - any thoughts? also our Transponder is not currently functioning, and it is some time since I have been, do you know if one is mandatory? Thanks for any words of wisdom. Tony. Original Message: ----------------- From: David Joyce davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:50:57 +0100 Subject: Europa-List: Le Touquet Saturday 28 June 2008 The trip to Le Touquet usually organised by theEuropa Club isn't happening this year, so I am opening the Gloucester Strut Le Touquet trip to anyone in the Europa fraternity who may be interested. A detailed briefing sheet is available which aims to provide anyone who has yet to cross the Channel with all the information needed to be able to face it with confidence. I can also probably (depending a bit on where the plane originates) arrange for me or someone to fly in loose formation with any 'Channel Virgin' who would welcome that sort of support. Experienced travellers are of course also welcome to come for the fun of it or to pick up some wine or a French tarte! The Strut trip will start from Gloucester or thereabouts and aim to be in Le Touquet by 12.30 local time (11.30 BST). There we normally rent bikes at the airfield and trundle gently into town for a fine Seafood lunch. Anyone potentially interested please contact me off forum and I will send full briefing details. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on MicrosoftR Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium MicrosoftR WindowsR and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail From lamprey@infocom.co.ug Sun Jun 8 10:07:00 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Wheels up landing... Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 10:07:00 From: Richard Lamprey My condolences to Jos... I really do think it will happen one day to anyone with a monowheel. I have just done the same, with my classic here in Uganda. Details are: Classic with 912UL, warpdrive ground adjustable, I've flown 500 hours in her. After a series of circuits, let the gear handle down halfway to slow down, and forgot the final movement and lock. Landed on soft grass, even softer underneath from recent rain... big bang, prop shatters, slide to halt... with instant recognition of the problem and feeling like complete idiot... As usual, it the trail of events, having flown 60 hours in the previous 3 weeks in a Cessna 182 with gear safely welded down!... general fatigue and just not with it. Minimal damage to the airframe, wiped off the transponder antenna, the fuselage flap fairings are slightly grazed. When we raised it with a hoist, wheel came down a locked quite normally, and all inspection so far says the undercarriage / engine frame is OK. On 'landing' the wheel went it to be supported by the throttle box, and that will need some work (do Europa have these or do I have to fabricate a new one as in the old days?). The engine is the problem, it has the slipper clutch, but the gearbox sounds pretty graunched on turning the prop. So, I have to get the Rotax specialist up from South Africa (3000 km away) to go through the whole thing - big expense!!. Apparently you cant use the warpdrive hub again, but at least I have spare blades. Can anyone with similar experience tell me what else I should look for on the general inspection...? Many thanks, and greetings to all the fraternity. Richard Lamprey From carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk Sun Jun 8 11:11:00 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wheels up landing... Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 11:11:00 From: Carl Pattinson Hi Richard - sorry to hear of your mishap. Just a personal observation but I feel that lowering the gear halfway is a habit that may have contributed towards your expensive landing. Its a nuisance but I have always lowered and locked the undercarriage down well before getting onto finals (ie: downwind leg). The lowering of the gear prompted by using the checklist in the circuit and a final confirmation of gear locked down on turning finals (and catch locked in gate). But then I have only logged 200 hours to your 500 so it may happen to me yet. I have smashed a prop (same as yours) due to a groundloop but luckily the engine was idling and all that was required was a check on the gearbox - fortunately the UK Rotax agent is only 30 miles away. I didnt have to replace the prop hub, just the blades. Nearly 180 hrs flown since the ding and no problems. Im surprised your gearbox appears to have sustained so much damage. I thought the point of the slipper clutch was to prevent this. Again comiserations, Carl Pattinson G-LABS ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Lamprey To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 8:07 AM Subject: Europa-List: Wheels up landing... My condolences to Jos... I really do think it will happen one day to anyone with a monowheel. I have just done the same, with my classic here in Uganda. Details are: Classic with 912UL, warpdrive ground adjustable, I've flown 500 hours in her. After a series of circuits, let the gear handle down halfway to slow down, and forgot the final movement and lock. Landed on soft grass, even softer underneath from recent rain... big bang, prop shatters, slide to halt... with instant recognition of the problem and feeling like complete idiot... As usual, it the trail of events, having flown 60 hours in the previous 3 weeks in a Cessna 182 with gear safely welded down!... general fatigue and just not with it. Minimal damage to the airframe, wiped off the transponder antenna, the fuselage flap fairings are slightly grazed. When we raised it with a hoist, wheel came down a locked quite normally, and all inspection so far says the undercarriage / engine frame is OK. On 'landing' the wheel went it to be supported by the throttle box, and that will need some work (do Europa have these or do I have to fabricate a new one as in the old days?). The engine is the problem, it has the slipper clutch, but the gearbox sounds pretty graunched on turning the prop. So, I have to get the Rotax specialist up from South Africa (3000 km away) to go through the whole thing - big expense!!. Apparently you cant use the warpdrive hub again, but at least I have spare blades. Can anyone with similar experience tell me what else I should look for on the general inspection...? Many thanks, and greetings to all the fraternity. Richard Lamprey From paul.the.aviator@gmail.com Sun Jun 8 12:17:28 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wheels up landing... Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 12:17:28 From: Paul McAllister Hi All, I have over a thousand hours of retract time, but in a single pilot operation I still wonder when my turn to leave the gear up will come. So, with all that said I am becoming more interested in what systems I can put in place to minimize a gear up landing. Once I got the oportunity to get some time in an Airforce 3 axis simulator for a KC135. One thing that really impressed me were the voice alerts at 50 and 30 feet generated from a radar altimeter. While systems like this are getting beyond the scope of home builders, I was wondering if anyone has had good experience with ultrasonic based devices that can perhaps measure 10 feet off the ground. I am thinking that taking inputs from manifold pressure, airspeed, gear microswitches and some altitude input and feeding them into a simple micro controller could generate a nice warning system. With that said there are plenty of examples of two pilot operations ignoring gear up warnings, but having an additonal system in my aircraft would be nice. I'd be interested in peoples input and ideas. If as a group we can come up with an approach I would be prepared to build and program a suitable micocontroller. Paul From Gilles.Thesee@acgrenoble.fr Sun Jun 8 19:32:40 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wheels up landing... Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 19:32:40 From: Gilles Thesee Paul McAllister a crit : > I'd be interested in peoples input and ideas. If as a group we can > come up with an approach I would be prepared to build and program a > suitable micocontroller. > Paul and all, A couple of microswitches in series on the throttle lever and gear to trigger a horn when the throttle is retarded and the gear up works very well. FWIW, Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr From bryanallsop@hotmail.com Sun Jun 8 14:15:30 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Wheels up Warner Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 14:15:30 From: Bryan Allsop Hi all Fellow Mono Pilots, It seems strange that I was showing my wheels up warning device to Bob Hitc hcock last weekend. He was saying that other people could be interested , b ut I was not so sure. It seems that I may have been wrong! I have developed a simple processor to control the system. With the trim se t to less than 65 Knots for landing, a proximity switch puts a +ve signal t o the controller. With the wheel up a bright red led flashes. After 30 seco nds of no further action a very loud intermitent siren makes itself known. Normally you will have the wheel down within the 30 seconds, so that the si ren does not come on. The siren can be temporarily overidden if required. When the wheel is down and locked, a bright green led comes on, and the red flasher goes off. Having had my own wheels up experience I have no intentions of having anoth er one. It works well, but installation requires a bit of patience to get i t set up for the 65 knot speed. It weighs a few ounces, and you need about 6 cubic inches of space behind the panel. I have no ambitions to start large scale marketing of it, but if sufficient people were to be interested I do have the resources to knock out some kit s. There are no approvals on the device, I don't even know if it needs one since it is not attached to any part of the controls. Regards to all. Bryan _________________________________________________________________ It=92s easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through Wi ndows Live=99 Messenger. Learn how. https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnHow From giani@ntlworld.com Sun Jun 8 20:30:28 2008 Subject: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List914 Overheating/boiling Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 20:30:28 From: G-IANI G-IRON, has a 914 that has suddenly developed a tendency to boil. Nothing has been done to the aircraft to precipitate this. Even with short warm up and taxi it will boil slightly as you clime out (at about 500ft). It will then stop boiling during the flight. On landing it will boil again as you come to rest. The boiling is quite gentle, not a big explosion of steam. It is filled with water/glycol. We have been over everything looking for hot spots such as a coolant pipe in contact with the exhaust and all is as it should be. The Rads have been checked and they are both OK. Has anyone got any ideas that might help Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com From paul.the.aviator@gmail.com Sun Jun 8 14:36:11 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wheels up landing... Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 14:36:11 From: Paul McAllister Hi Gilles, Yes that was my original thought too. My Comanche had a similar setup, but once I still found myself turning from base to final with the gear up after a distraction from the Control Tower who were trying to advert a mid air. Would it have worked when I finally closed the throttle? The Comanche like many aircraft with a higher wing loadings liked to be landed carrying a little power. I could imagine a scenario where I wasn't warned until I was in the flair which would have been very late. Still thinking about it. Thanks for the idea, keep them coming. Paul From josoke@ukolo.fi Sun Jun 8 22:44:11 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 22:44:11 From: josok Thanks to everybody for the condolences and good advice. I would like to help preventing others to fall in the same or similar trap.Looking back, it is interesting to see where and why it went wrong. On the Norwegian CAA site, is it http://www.ipppc.no ? sits a paper called VFR flying in Norway. It contains a list of factors, that tend to break the weakest link in flying security, us pilots. From the list, being tired, weather (too hot for me), unfamiliar airport, and also the first flight show to attend were the stress factors. The first mistake was to not turn the approach chart in track up position. I always use maps and the gps in track up. Flying South, i ended up on the wrong final. Went around and ended up on the right side, but too high and too fast. No problem, gear up, and go around for the second time. Concentrated on the runway, and started to lower the flaps/wheel, heard them noise, because the speed was about 100 knots. Left them half, turned final, did my on final check list, second pump on, constant speed controller on climb, gear down and locked. I remember to be a little confused that the lock was not in the usual position, but i was sure the handle was... UP. I noticed i was still fast, slowed down, stall warner blaring at 55, what i threw away as a mistake, was annoyed that the nose was too high, added a bit of power to soften the bounce :-) That there was no bounce, and a lot of smoke and noise brought me out of the fixation i had had. My conclusion, and maybe only valid for me, is to be more critical BEFORE the flight. I promised myself not ever to accept more then 2 of the "do not fly" list. Since i clearly remember to have seen the gear lever up on the "ready for final check", i do not think that any clever gear up alarm would have convinced me that there was something wrong. Wrong speed, wrong picture, wrong stall horn and: The final error was "up is good" The second promise to myself is from Kjell, that if i feel it is not going as expected. to break out, leave the circuit, take five. Come back later! I have to add that i just landed, it was very bumpy, the wind was gusting, an amphibious Cessna blew a tyre and blocked the runway i was on downwind for, the tower send me to another runway, asked if i could accept 15 knots gusting 25 crosswind, and i had a perfect landing. This one went like, oh not again, you are not getting me :-) Regards Jos Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org From Gilles.Thesee@acgrenoble.fr Sun Jun 8 21:46:21 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wheels up landing... Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 21:46:21 From: Gilles Thesee Paul McAllister a crit : > Would it have worked when I finally closed the throttle? The Comanche > like many aircraft with a higher wing loadings liked to be landed > carrying a little power. I could imagine a scenario where I wasn't > warned until I was in the flair which would have been very late. > How about setting the switch at 10 % power or so ? Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr From carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk Sun Jun 8 20:51:01 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wheels up Warner Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 20:51:01 From: Carl Pattinson Sounds like a great idea Bryan. I had always wanted to fit something similar but just havent had the time to think it through - or get round to doing it. I guess when it happens to you then it focuses the mind. I would be interested in the details. BTW how does the system recognise the aircraft is below 65 knots - ie: where is the input taken from? Carl G-LABS ----- Original Message ----- From: Bryan Allsop To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 7:15 PM Subject: Europa-List: Wheels up Warner Hi all Fellow Mono Pilots, It seems strange that I was showing my wheels up warning device to Bob Hitchcock last weekend. He was saying that other people could be interested , but I was not so sure. It seems that I may have been wrong! I have developed a simple processor to control the system. With the trim set to less than 65 Knots for landing, a proximity switch puts a +ve signal to the controller. With the wheel up a bright red led flashes. After 30 seconds of no further action a very loud intermitent siren makes itself known. Normally you will have the wheel down within the 30 seconds, so that the siren does not come on. The siren can be temporarily overidden if required. When the wheel is down and locked, a bright green led comes on, and the red flasher goes off. Having had my own wheels up experience I have no intentions of having another one. It works well, but installation requires a bit of patience to get it set up for the 65 knot speed. It weighs a few ounces, and you need about 6 cubic inches of space behind the panel. I have no ambitions to start large scale marketing of it, but if sufficient people were to be interested I do have the resources to knock out some kits. There are no approvals on the device, I don't even know if it needs one since it is not attached to any part of the controls. Regards to all. Bryan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- It=92s easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through Windows Live=99 Messenger. Learn How.. From Gilles.Thesee@acgrenoble.fr Sun Jun 8 21:51:29 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List914 Overheating/boiling Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 21:51:29 From: Gilles Thesee G-IANI a crit : > > > G-IRON, has a 914 that has suddenly developed a tendency to boil. > Nothing has been done to the aircraft to precipitate this. > > Even with short warm up and taxi it will boil slightly as you clime out > (at about 500ft). It will then stop boiling during the flight. On > landing it will boil again as you come to rest. The boiling is quite > gentle, not a big explosion of steam. It is filled with water/glycol. > Ian, Would you care to expand on this boiling issue ? How does this boiling manifest itself ? High temp readings, steam trails ? Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr From bryanallsop@hotmail.com Sun Jun 8 16:33:58 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Wheels up Warner Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 16:33:58 From: Bryan Allsop Hi Carl. Long time no see. The trim set up determines the airspeed. The trim motor arm extends with a tiny magnet fixed to it which operates the proximity switch. Finding the co rrect combination of switch and magnet to give a precise reliable switch wa s a significant part of the development, which took nearly a year. Cheers. Bryan From: carl@flyers.freeserve.co.ukTo: europa-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Europa-List: Wheels up WarnerDate: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 20:51:01 +0100 Sounds like a great idea Bryan. I had always wanted to fit something similar but just havent had the time t o think it through - or get round to doing it. I guess when it happens to you then it focuses the mind. I would be interested in the details. BTW how does the system recognise the aircraft is below 65 knots - ie: wher e is the input taken from? Carl G-LABS ----- Original Message ----- From: Bryan Allsop Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 7:15 PM Subject: Europa-List: Wheels up Warner Hi all Fellow Mono Pilots, It seems strange that I was showing my wheels up warning device to Bob Hitchcock last weekend. He was saying that other peo ple could be interested , but I was not so sure. It seems that I may have b een wrong! I have developed a simple processor to control the system. With the trim set to less than 65 Knots for landing, a proximity switch puts a + ve signal to the controller. With the wheel up a bright red led flashes. Af ter 30 seconds of no further action a very loud intermitent siren makes its elf known. Normally you will have the wheel down within the 30 seconds, so that the siren does not come on. The siren can be temporarily overidden if required. When the wheel is down and locked, a bright green led comes on, a nd the red flasher goes off. Having had my own wheels up experience I have no intentions of having another one. It works well, but installation requi res a bit of patience to get it set up for the 65 knot speed. It weighs a f ew ounces, and you need about 6 cubic inches of space behind the panel. I h ave no ambitions to start large scale marketing of it, but if sufficient pe ople were to be interested I do have the resources to knock out some kits. There are no approvals on the device, I don't even know if it needs one sin ce it is not attached to any part of the controls. Regards to all. Bryan It=92s easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through Wi ndows Live=99 Messenger. Learn How.. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhr ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _________________________________________________________________ Search that pays you back! Introducing Live Search cashback. http://search.live.com/cashback/?&pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=s rchpaysyouback From rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sun Jun 8 21:02:25 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List914 Overheating/boiling Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 21:02:25 From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi G-IANI "Even with short warm up and taxi it will boil slightly as you clime out" "Has anyone got any ideas that might help" Will the system hold 1.2 bar pressure? If pressure drops boiling temp will go down. I had a pressure cap on my 1992 Volvo turbo Station Wagon get a very small hairline crack perhaps a year ago and what you describe is bout what happened to me. Pretty easy to check are radiator fins restricting? Has any hose or fitting changed to cause a restriction? Harder to check, is radiator internal restricting? Is water pump working properly? Good Luck Ron Parigoris From rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sun Jun 8 21:49:33 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wheels up landing... Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 21:49:33 From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Jos Thx. for sharing your experience. Wayne and I built a 5 pound, 3/4 hp 4 foot flying wing. To make it make it more manageable on landing we installed articulatable NASA Leading Edge droop. Worked great, but if you touched down with droop down, it would break the Sullivan actuator/s. Thus we modified the transmitter with a simple button, when you flare, push button and droop retracted. My feathers were severely ruffled after the second time I forgot to retract. On a good day I would be just about following the aerocraft, but could get behind it very easy. Needless to say I spent plenty of time changing actuators! First was to have Wayne remind me to retract on flare, spent time replacing actuators. Made a checklist and stringent procedure, spent time replacing actuators. Slightest thing not go perfect as anticipate and could forget to retract. I can make a direct comparison to forgetting to drop Europa gear. "When" I forget to drop Europa gear, we made what is a pretty structural up stop for swing arm: http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album216&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php Installing an adjustable pressure switch driven by pitot (purchased from Europa, what they use for stall warner) to liven things up below lets say 70 knots, and a switch for each outrigger and a switch for lever down latch. Will drive a bright LED aimed at pilots eyes, and probably a stick shaker. Stick shaker will be a mini cell phone style mini motor with offset weight. If all is well will get 3 green LEDs. Here is a how we ran wires for outrigger switches: http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album217&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php Will not get green LED unless outrigger latch is ready to take some abuse without collapsing. BTW installed a lever downlatch spring to make sure latch stays down: http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album215&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php My Undercarriage mounting frame had things undercenter! Anyone with a monowheel best make sure you have overcenter by at least 1/16" up to bout 3/32" Hi Paul "I was wondering if anyone has had good experience with ultrasonic > based devices that can perhaps measure 10 feet off the ground." Can's say we have good experience, but some experience: http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album236&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php Ron Parigoris From raimo.toivio@rwm.fi Mon Jun 9 01:31:24 2008 Subject: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Fly-inn Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 01:31:24 From: Raimo Toivio Hi all My sad responsibility is to report also my incident as follows: I was flying back from Barkaby to Finland Tampere (EFTP) via Ume (ESNU). Two legs, 3 hrs and 1 hrs 20 minutes. Half an hour from EFTP I met two thunder storm centres. I elected to fly between them. Seemed for me to be just a normal practise. QNH altitude 4000 feet, airspeed 130 knots, ground speed 150 knots, air temp 22C, plane was well trimmed and loaded near MTOW 658 kg /1450 lbs.Almost overcast (5/8) about 6000 feet. We saw quite strong lightnings both sides. Suddenly I got a STRONG electric shock like static or similar to my right hand ---From the power lever. My friend got a similar shock to his ears through head sets. Very heavy raining started immediately. Radio started awful whistling and whining. What the hell was happening we asked each others. Plane was still flying well. We saw no damages on the wing surfaces etc. Radio stopped whistling after five minutes or so. I was checking all the equipments I could. During that inspection I noticed I have no trim position display any more (I have those green MAC leds). I tried to trim but nothing happened. CB (Europa suplied) was in position. I tried via change over swith my another lower speed trim adjusting switch but nothing happened. Just for in case I opened trim CB to avoid possibility of the trim auto-run case. I have to mention we had with Jos a discussion of that case and he stated that if it goes to the other side, it is impossible to keep pitch control any more. And that discussion was this morning! So, I was flying over EFTP. Altitude 3000 feet. There was a whole circus like several fire trucks, police and ambulances. Carefully I slowed the speed to 80 knots to test what happens during flaps/gear lowering. You remember I had lost my electric trim and it was trimmed for 130 knots. During my normal abroach speed 70 knots I can tell you the nose was VERY heavy but still controlable. Just in case my strong friend helped me by pulling his stick also. I keeped that speed until touching the runway and it was one of my best monowheel landing ever (like Jos reported today in his other case EFHF). ATC men, fire men and all the others congratulated me. We were alive and OH-XRT was still in one piece. I taxied to the hangar and after half an hour trim motor started to work by itself. Still there was no its position lights. Trim CB was working normally. We fast checked the plane and obviously the lightning has gone trough stbd-side stabilator pip-pin to the structure. The pip-pin cover (transparent sticker) was explosed and the head of the pip-pin was black. That was it. I drove home, kissed my daughters and wife and opened a bottle of bier. BTW - when we were over EFTP, my friend measured my pulse rate and it was 150. That was an interesting experience. Some of you know that I made last summer a serioush but super lucky forced landing in Lappland because my Cessnas mechanical trim was working uppsidedown. That was because a service error of certified service company Arctic Airservice. Trim controls are my nightmares and devils lurking to make me a bad day. I grounded my Europa of course. I am not sure what to do now. If I later decide to continue flying, I have to fix it first and and check it carefully. I called Jos (thank you) and he advised me to check everything. Have you there any ideas for me, please? Raimo OH-XRT, 64 hrs, grounded so far ----- Original Message ----- From: "josok" Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 7:14 PM Subject: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... > > Hi All, > > Well, to let you know that i did it, landed with gear up. > Just plain stupidity of course. As always, there was a build up of smaller mistakes, which should have warned me. But it ended with forgetting to put the gear down. The good thing is we walked away, and also the damage to the plane is minor. It looks like i will be flying home, with the prop of an other Europa ---From Kjell Skogeland. It's fantastic to get help so fast! > > Regards, > > Jos Okhuijsen > > > > > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > > > > > > > From grahamsingleton@btinternet.com Sun Jun 8 23:23:21 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wheels up landing... Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 23:23:21 From: Graham Singleton Gilles Thesee wrote: That's exactly what our leader, (Burt Rutan) drew up in the Long EZ plans, for the same reason. Graham > > > Paul McAllister a crit : >> I'd be interested in peoples input and ideas. If as a group we can >> come up with an approach I would be prepared to build and program a >> suitable micocontroller. >> > > Paul and all, > > A couple of microswitches in series on the throttle lever and gear to > trigger a horn when the throttle is retarded and the gear up works > very well. > > FWIW, > > Best regards, > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Checked by AVG. > From raimo.toivio@rwm.fi Mon Jun 9 01:41:46 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wheels up landing... Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 01:41:46 From: Raimo Toivio Paul and all, A couple of microswitches in series on the throttle lever and gear to trigger a horn when the throttle is retarded and the gear up works very well. FWIW, Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr I have a similar system with high bright red and yellow leds + a horn. Works well but I am sure if mentally loaded enough ALL the warnings are useless. Automatic gear lowering is the only answer (!) then but what happens if... Raimo (fixed gear makes life too easy) From paul.the.aviator@gmail.com Sun Jun 8 18:58:17 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 18:58:17 From: Paul McAllister Fly-inn Sweden (!). Hi Ramio, Well I guess you have joined the club. Take a look at http://www.europa.net.nz/363/index.html, click on the left hand pane under flying experiences and you can read about the damage my aircraft took with my lightning strike. By the way, I bought a lottery ticket straight after my hit but i didn't win anything. I assume that I have used up all of my luck Cheers, Paul From trevpond@aol.com Mon Jun 9 04:58:49 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List914 Overheating/boiling Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 04:58:49 From: trevpond@aol.com Hi Ian, Have you changed your coolant reservoir cap since taking out the evans? regards Trev G-LINN -----Original Message----- From: G-IANI Sent: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 21:30 Subject: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List914 Overheating/boiling G-IRON, has a 914 that has suddenly developed a tendency to boil. Nothing has been done to the aircraft to precipitate this. Even with short warm up and taxi it will boil slightly as you clime out (at about 500ft). It will then stop boiling during the flight. On landing it will boil again as you come to rest. The boiling is quite gentle, not a big explosion of steam. It is filled with water/glycol. We have been over everything looking for hot spots such as a coolant pipe in contact with the exhaust and all is as it should be. The Rads have been checked and they are both OK. Has anyone got any ideas that might help Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________________________________________________ From davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Mon Jun 9 10:08:12 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 10:08:12 From: David Joyce Raimo, Congratulations on your cool response (only 150bpm!) and survival! I hate lightning. Always find myself thinking about the UK glider whose wing actually blew apart. In thinking how to prepare my plane for a trip to Australia (where close encounters with lightning are almost inevitable) I came across the attached in a 2001 CAA paper on lightning protection, (the earlier pages were all about tin aircraft), which says: 4 Gliders. Attention should be given to these aircraft, especially those of non metallic structure, and bonding straps should be installed between the extremities to conduct any strike away from the flying controls. A point to remember is that bonding should run as straight as possible avoiding loops formed by excess lengths at, for example, transport joints, since a lightning strike will jump across any sharp loops or bends. Before I head off to Asia, I plan to put aluminium mesh right along the aileron and flap close outs joining to the rear lift pin to allow wing tip to wing tip lightning travel, and probably also a similar strap from the engine frame along the tunnel to the tail wheel spring. Would weigh probably less than a kg. What do you think? Regards David Joyce, G-XSDJ, Mono XS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raimo Toivio" Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:31 PM Subject: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden From davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Mon Jun 9 10:24:31 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 10:24:31 From: David Joyce Jos, I have a fair amount of relevant experience in the matter (!), particularly in gliding, and I suspect that pilots who are convinced they have put the gear down will not be persuaded otherwise by a warning horn. I have known a glider fly a 100km task with the gear down and then carefully pull it up and land ignoring the gear up warning noise! (Assuming it must be some malfunction because the pilot knew he had just done the gear) Now I would rather rely on a simple check list rigidly applied on down wind and finals: PUFF = Prop/Undercarriage/Fuel/ Flap. Undercarriage and flap both demand visual confirmation. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "josok" Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 8:44 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... > > Thanks to everybody for the condolences and good advice. I would like to > help preventing others to fall in the same or similar trap.Looking back, > it is interesting to see where and why it went wrong. > > On the Norwegian CAA site, is it http://www.ipppc.no ? sits a paper called > VFR flying in Norway. It contains a list of factors, that tend to break > the weakest link in flying security, us pilots. From the list, being > tired, weather (too hot for me), unfamiliar airport, and also the first > flight show to attend were the stress factors. > > The first mistake was to not turn the approach chart in track up position. > I always use maps and the gps in track up. Flying South, i ended up on the > wrong final. Went around and ended up on the right side, but too high and > too fast. No problem, gear up, and go around for the second time. > Concentrated on the runway, and started to lower the flaps/wheel, heard > them noise, because the speed was about 100 knots. Left them half, turned > final, did my on final check list, second pump on, constant speed > controller on climb, gear down and locked. I remember to be a little > confused that the lock was not in the usual position, but i was sure the > handle was... UP. I noticed i was still fast, slowed down, stall warner > blaring at 55, what i threw away as a mistake, was annoyed that the nose > was too high, added a bit of power to soften the bounce :-) That there was > no bounce, and a lot of smoke and noise brought me out of the fixation i > had had. > > My conclusion, and maybe only valid for me, is to be more critical BEFORE > the flight. I promised myself not ever to accept more then 2 of the "do > not fly" list. Since i clearly remember to have seen the gear lever up on > the "ready for final check", i do not think that any clever gear up alarm > would have convinced me that there was something wrong. Wrong speed, wrong > picture, wrong stall horn and: The final error was "up is good" > > The second promise to myself is from Kjell, that if i feel it is not going > as expected. to break out, leave the circuit, take five. Come back later! > > I have to add that i just landed, it was very bumpy, the wind was gusting, > an amphibious Cessna blew a tyre and blocked the runway i was on downwind > for, the tower send me to another runway, asked if i could accept 15 knots > gusting 25 crosswind, and i had a perfect landing. This one went like, oh > not again, you are not getting me :-) > > Regards > > Jos > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > From paddyclarke@lineone.net Mon Jun 9 12:13:08 2008 Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:13:08 From: Paddy Clarke Hi Folks, The weather should be good for tomorrow ( Tuesday 10th ), so how about a DOTH?. Unless anyone has any other ideas, I propose Andrewsfield. Voucher in Pilot - 1200 ish, Cheers, Paddy Paddy Clarke Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM From josoke@ukolo.fi Mon Jun 9 14:18:44 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around B Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 14:18:44 From: josok In my humble opinion it's a very good idea to create a better path for lightning outside the wings. 2 things come to mind: The better the conductor, the less change for heat generation. The tie-bar is not an optimal conductor and there should be a well connected copper or aluminium bar/wire parallel to it. The other obvious place to strike are the position lights. Maybe it's a good idea to run their ground over the outside mesh, and not through a wire inside the wing. The feed wires are usually longer and thus form a less interesting path for a strike. I've seen brick walls blown apart because the lightning followed a path over a wire in that wall. The wire was stripped and still in place! Something for my next winter to-do list. And if ever possible, i will still avoid thunderstorms. Regards, Jos Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org From rlborger@mac.com Mon Jun 9 05:34:17 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 05:34:17 From: Robert Borger Fly-inn Sweden (!). Raimo, Thank goodness you and your passenger were not harmed. Two folks have now shown that it is possible to survive a lightning strike in the Europa. Gents, that's enough. No further need for continued demonstrations! I appreciate your candor in the description of the event. We all need to learn ---From our collective experiences. Now take a brief rest with the family while you investigate and repair the damage. Then you'll be ready to get back on that horse and ride again. Check six, Bob Borger On Sunday, June 08, 2008, at 05:28PM, "Raimo Toivio" wrote: > >Hi all > >My sad responsibility is to report also my incident as follows: > >I was flying back from Barkaby to Finland Tampere (EFTP) via Ume (ESNU). >Two legs, 3 hrs and 1 hrs 20 minutes. >Half an hour from EFTP I met two thunder storm centres. I elected to fly between them. >Seemed for me to be just a normal practise. QNH altitude 4000 feet, airspeed 130 knots, >ground speed 150 knots, air temp 22C, plane was well trimmed and loaded near MTOW >658 kg /1450 lbs.Almost overcast (5/8) about 6000 feet. We saw quite strong lightnings >both sides. > >Suddenly I got a STRONG electric shock like static or similar to my right hand ---From the power lever. >My friend got a similar shock to his ears through head sets. >Very heavy raining started immediately. >Radio started awful whistling and whining. > >What the hell was happening we asked each others. >Plane was still flying well. >We saw no damages on the wing surfaces etc. >Radio stopped whistling after five minutes or so. >I was checking all the equipments I could. > >During that inspection I noticed I have no trim position display any more (I have those green MAC leds). >I tried to trim but nothing happened. >CB (Europa suplied) was in position. >I tried via change over swith my another lower speed trim adjusting switch but nothing happened. >Just for in case I opened trim CB to avoid possibility of the trim auto-run case. > >I have to mention we had with Jos a discussion of that case and he stated that if it goes to the other side, >it is impossible to keep pitch control any more. And that discussion was this morning! > >So, I was flying over EFTP. Altitude 3000 feet. There was a whole circus like several fire trucks, police and >ambulances. Carefully I slowed the speed to 80 knots to test what happens during flaps/gear lowering. >You remember I had lost my electric trim and it was trimmed for 130 knots. > >During my normal abroach speed 70 knots I can tell you the nose was VERY heavy but still controlable. >Just in case my strong friend helped me by pulling his stick also. >I keeped that speed until touching the runway and it was one of my best monowheel landing ever >(like Jos reported today in his other case EFHF). > >ATC men, fire men and all the others congratulated me. We were alive and OH-XRT was still in one piece. > >I taxied to the hangar and after half an hour trim motor started to work by itself. >Still there was no its position lights. Trim CB was working normally. > >We fast checked the plane and obviously the lightning has gone trough stbd-side stabilator pip-pin to the structure. The pip-pin cover (transparent sticker) was explosed and the head of the pip-pin was black. > >That was it. I drove home, kissed my daughters and wife and opened a bottle of bier. > >BTW - when we were over EFTP, my friend measured my pulse rate and it was 150. > >That was an interesting experience. Some of you know that I made last summer a serioush but super lucky >forced landing in Lappland because my Cessnas mechanical trim was working uppsidedown. >That was because a service error of certified service company Arctic Airservice. > >Trim controls are my nightmares and devils lurking to make me a bad day. > >I grounded my Europa of course. I am not sure what to do now. >If I later decide to continue flying, I have to fix it first and and check it carefully. >I called Jos (thank you) and he advised me to check everything. > >Have you there any ideas for me, please? > >Raimo >OH-XRT, 64 hrs, grounded so far From trevpond@aol.com Mon Jun 9 09:43:49 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 09:43:49 From: trevpond@aol.com Hi Paddy, Would have loved it but in France at the moment, returning tomorrow 5ish.?? All the best Trev G-LINN -----Original Message----- From: Paddy Clarke Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 13:13 Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield ? Hi Folks,? The weather should be good for tomorrow ( Tuesday 10th ), so how about a DOTH?. Unless anyone has any other ideas, I propose Andrewsfield.? Voucher in Pilot - 1200 ish,? Cheers, Paddy? ? Paddy Clarke? ? Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM? ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________ From raimo.toivio@rwm.fi Mon Jun 9 23:56:45 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 23:56:45 From: Raimo Toivio Paul, I read your lightning story and all went basically like mine yesterday "I have a shut off knob on the tunnel for the air box which supplies ventilation for the cabin and my knee was leaning up against it. I guess there is about 4 feet of cable, but it was enough to induce a significant voltage to electrocute me." That was for me an experience I will never forget. My Europas damages were anyway childrens play but it is always nice to belong to the same club as you. Do they say the strike does not hit the same plane never again, do they ??? Wishes, Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul McAllister" Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 2:58 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). > > Hi Ramio, > > Well I guess you have joined the club. Take a look at > http://www.europa.net.nz/363/index.html, click on the left hand pane > under flying experiences and you can read about the damage my aircraft > took with my lightning strike. > > By the way, I bought a lottery ticket straight after my hit but i > didn't win anything. I assume that I have used up all of my luck > > Cheers, Paul > > > > > From rowil@clara.net Mon Jun 9 23:00:08 2008 Subject: Europa-List: rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 23:00:08 From: Rowland Carson I'm just starting to highlight the trimming lines on the cockpit module with a fine felt-tip pen so I can see where to cut. I'm puzzled by the marks on the starboard side of the centre tunnel, at the side of the seat area. My printed manual does not identify any individual holes, but the PDF manual from the factory website marks it and the corresponding one on port as "rudder pulley access holes". The approximately-horizontal flanges on which they appear are asymmetrical - wider on the starboard side than the port. The port side hole is clearly outlined and also cross-hatched. On the starboard side are 2 oval areas about the same size and slightly overlapping. The outboard one is cross-hatched and the inboard one is not. Do I cut out just the hatched one, or just the unhatched one? My guess would be only the hatched one, as it appears to be in about the same relationship to the seat-pan as the port one. The central narrow part of the tunnel is veering off to port as it reaches the seat-back and that is what makes the starboard flange wider there, and I assume the rudder pulleys are located equidistant from the centreline or from the outside edge of the fuselage/cockpit module - thus the outboard (hatched) outline is the one that's needed. Perhaps the inboard position was marked in error and both correct ones have been hatched to better identify them. Roger at the factory says he thinks it should be the hatched one, but does anyone know any better before I start cutting? regards Rowland -- | Wilma & Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/ | ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... From fklein@orcasonline.com Mon Jun 9 19:39:21 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 19:39:21 From: Fred Klein On Monday, Jun 9, 2008, at 15:00 US/Pacific, Rowland Carson wrote: > The approximately-horizontal flanges on which they appear are > asymmetrical - wider on the starboard side than the port. The port > side hole is clearly outlined and also cross-hatched. On the starboard > side are 2 oval areas about the same size and slightly overlapping. > The outboard one is cross-hatched and the inboard one is not. > > Do I cut out just the hatched one, or just the unhatched one? > > My guess would be only the hatched one, as it appears to be in about > the same relationship to the seat-pan as the port one. The central > narrow part of the tunnel is veering off to port as it reaches the > seat-back and that is what makes the starboard flange wider there, and > I assume the rudder pulleys are located equidistant from the > centreline or from the outside edge of the fuselage/cockpit module - > thus the outboard (hatched) outline is the one that's needed. Rowland, Though I can no longer see the hairlines indicating the access hole locations, you are correct in reasoning that the holes want to be in the same relationship to the seat flanges, NOT in the same relationship to the central narrow part of the tunnel which I mistakenly used when I made my initial cuts. (Easily remedied w/ a small patch and some 5 min. epoxy.) Take the starboard side as a guide and duplicate it on the port side and you'll be good to go. Fred -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From litesellme@yahoo.com Mon Jun 9 23:31:09 2008 Subject: Europa-List: fuel injected 912 is running great Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 23:31:09 From: jason Parker Read about how I fuel injected my Titan Tornado in 3 weeks. Ialso have a customer with a Europa who has one of my 914's. He will be ready to fire up his engine in a month or two. mine is runningGreat! I'll add some videos on UTUBE and a link on my site.www.experimentalfuelinjection.com/wst_page4 From ward.t@xtra.co.nz Tue Jun 10 19:41:12 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Europa-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 06/09/08 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:41:12 From: Tim Ward First snow landing of a Europa in New Zealand!!! Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street, Fendalton, CHRISTCHURCH 8052 NEW ZEALAND Ph :64 03 3515166 Mob: 021 0640221 > > email: > ward.t@xtra.co.nz >> ================================================= >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >> ================================================= >> >> Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of the >> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted >> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >> of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >> such as Notepad or with a web browser. >> >> HTML Version: >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 08-06-09&Archive=Europa >> >> Text Version: >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 08-06-09&Archive=Europa >> >> >> =============================================== >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >> =============================================== >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Europa-List Digest Archive >> --- >> Total Messages Posted Mon 06/09/08: 11 >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> Today's Message Index: >> ---------------------- >> >> 1. 02:02 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List914 Overheating/boiling >> (trevpond@aol.com) >> 2. 02:11 AM - Re: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >> Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). (David Joyce) >> 3. 02:27 AM - Re: there are pilots who have and .... (David Joyce) >> 4. 04:16 AM - DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield (Paddy Clarke) >> 5. 04:21 AM - Re: An another incident for Finnish Europa around B >> (josok) >> 6. 05:38 AM - Re: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >> Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). (Robert Borger) >> 7. 06:47 AM - Re: DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield (trevpond@aol.com) >> 8. 01:48 PM - Re: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >> Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). (Raimo Toivio) >> 9. 03:04 PM - rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module (Rowland >> Carson) >> 10. 07:44 PM - Re: rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module (Fred >> Klein) >> 11. 11:34 PM - fuel injected 912 is running great (jason Parker) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 1 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List914 Overheating/boiling >> From: trevpond@aol.com >> >> Hi Ian, >> >> Have you changed your coolant reservoir cap since taking out the evans? >> >> regards >> >> >> Trev >> G-LINN >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: G-IANI >> Sent: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 21:30 >> Subject: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List914 Overheating/boiling >> >> >> >> >> G-IRON, has a 914 that has suddenly developed a tendency to boil. >> Nothing has been done to the aircraft to precipitate this. >> >> Even with short warm up and taxi it will boil slightly as you clime out >> (at about 500ft). It will then stop boiling during the flight. On >> landing it will boil again as you come to rest. The boiling is quite >> gentle, not a big explosion of steam. It is filled with water/glycol. >> >> We have been over everything looking for hot spots such as a coolant >> pipe in contact with the exhaust and all is as it should be. The Rads >> have been checked and they are both OK. >> >> Has anyone got any ideas that might help >> >> Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours >> Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) >> e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk >> or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> >> ________________________________ Message 2 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> From: "David Joyce" >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >> Barkaby >> Fly-inn Sweden (!). >> >> >> Raimo, Congratulations on your cool response (only 150bpm!) and survival! >> I hate lightning. Always find myself thinking about the UK glider >> whose >> wing actually blew apart. In thinking how to prepare my plane for a trip >> to >> Australia (where close encounters with lightning are almost inevitable) I >> came across the attached in a 2001 CAA paper on lightning protection, >> (the >> earlier pages were all about tin aircraft), which says: >> 4 Gliders. Attention should be given to these aircraft, especially >> those of non metallic structure, and bonding straps should be installed >> between the extremities to conduct any strike away from the flying >> controls. >> A point to remember is that bonding should run as straight as possible >> avoiding loops formed by excess lengths at, for example, transport >> joints, >> since a lightning strike will jump across any sharp loops or bends. >> Before I head off to Asia, I plan to put aluminium mesh right along >> the aileron and flap close outs joining to the rear lift pin to allow >> wing >> tip to wing tip lightning travel, and probably also a similar strap from >> the >> engine frame along the tunnel to the tail wheel spring. Would weigh >> probably >> less than a kg. What do you think? >> Regards David Joyce, G-XSDJ, Mono XS >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Raimo Toivio" >> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:31 PM >> Subject: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >> Barkaby >> Fly-inn Sweden >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 3 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> From: "David Joyce" >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... >> >> >> Jos, I have a fair amount of relevant experience in the matter (!), >> particularly in gliding, and I suspect that pilots who are convinced >> they >> have put the gear down will not be persuaded otherwise by a warning horn. >> I >> have known a glider fly a 100km task with the gear down and then >> carefully >> pull it up and land ignoring the gear up warning noise! (Assuming it must >> be >> some malfunction because the pilot knew he had just done the gear) >> Now I would rather rely on a simple check list rigidly applied on >> down wind and finals: PUFF = Prop/Undercarriage/Fuel/ Flap. Undercarriage >> and flap both demand visual confirmation. >> Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "josok" >> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 8:44 PM >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: there are pilots who have and .... >> >> >>> >>> Thanks to everybody for the condolences and good advice. I would like to >>> help preventing others to fall in the same or similar trap.Looking back, >>> it is interesting to see where and why it went wrong. >>> >>> On the Norwegian CAA site, is it http://www.ipppc.no ? sits a paper >>> called >>> VFR flying in Norway. It contains a list of factors, that tend to break >>> the weakest link in flying security, us pilots. From the list, being >>> tired, weather (too hot for me), unfamiliar airport, and also the first >>> flight show to attend were the stress factors. >>> >>> The first mistake was to not turn the approach chart in track up >>> position. >>> I always use maps and the gps in track up. Flying South, i ended up on >>> the >>> wrong final. Went around and ended up on the right side, but too high >>> and >>> too fast. No problem, gear up, and go around for the second time. >>> Concentrated on the runway, and started to lower the flaps/wheel, heard >>> them noise, because the speed was about 100 knots. Left them half, >>> turned >>> final, did my on final check list, second pump on, constant speed >>> controller on climb, gear down and locked. I remember to be a little >>> confused that the lock was not in the usual position, but i was sure the >>> handle was... UP. I noticed i was still fast, slowed down, stall warner >>> blaring at 55, what i threw away as a mistake, was annoyed that the nose >>> was too high, added a bit of power to soften the bounce :-) That there >>> was >>> no bounce, and a lot of smoke and noise brought me out of the fixation i >>> had had. >>> >>> My conclusion, and maybe only valid for me, is to be more critical >>> BEFORE >>> the flight. I promised myself not ever to accept more then 2 of the "do >>> not fly" list. Since i clearly remember to have seen the gear lever up >>> on >>> the "ready for final check", i do not think that any clever gear up >>> alarm >>> would have convinced me that there was something wrong. Wrong speed, >>> wrong >>> picture, wrong stall horn and: The final error was "up is good" >>> >>> The second promise to myself is from Kjell, that if i feel it is not >>> going >>> as expected. to break out, leave the circuit, take five. Come back >>> later! >>> >>> I have to add that i just landed, it was very bumpy, the wind was >>> gusting, >>> an amphibious Cessna blew a tyre and blocked the runway i was on >>> downwind >>> for, the tower send me to another runway, asked if i could accept 15 >>> knots >>> gusting 25 crosswind, and i had a perfect landing. This one went like, >>> oh >>> not again, you are not getting me :-) >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Jos >>> >>> >>> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 4 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> From: Paddy Clarke >> Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield >> >> >> Hi Folks, >> The weather should be good for tomorrow ( Tuesday 10th ), so how >> about a DOTH?. Unless anyone has any other ideas, I propose >> Andrewsfield. >> Voucher in Pilot - 1200 ish, >> Cheers, Paddy >> >> >> Paddy Clarke >> >> Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 5 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around B >> From: "josok" >> >> >> In my humble opinion it's a very good idea to create a better path for >> lightning >> outside the wings. 2 things come to mind: The better the conductor, the >> less >> change for heat generation. The tie-bar is not an optimal conductor and >> there >> should be a well connected copper or aluminium bar/wire parallel to it. >> The other >> obvious place to strike are the position lights. Maybe it's a good idea >> to >> run their ground over the outside mesh, and not through a wire inside the >> wing. >> The feed wires are usually longer and thus form a less interesting path >> for >> a strike. I've seen brick walls blown apart because the lightning >> followed >> a path over a wire in that wall. The wire was stripped and still in >> place! >> Something >> for my next winter to-do list. And if ever possible, i will still avoid >> thunderstorms. >> >> Regards, >> >> Jos >> >> >> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 6 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> From: Robert Borger >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >> Barkaby >> Fly-inn Sweden (!). >> >> >> Raimo, >> >> Thank goodness you and your passenger were not harmed. Two folks have >> now >> shown >> that it is possible to survive a lightning strike in the Europa. >> >> Gents, that's enough. No further need for continued demonstrations! >> >> I appreciate your candor in the description of the event. We all need to >> learn >> from our collective experiences. >> >> Now take a brief rest with the family while you investigate and repair >> the >> damage. >> Then you'll be ready to get back on that horse and ride again. >> >> Check six, >> Bob Borger >> >> On Sunday, June 08, 2008, at 05:28PM, "Raimo Toivio" >> >> wrote: >>> >>>Hi all >>> >>>My sad responsibility is to report also my incident as follows: >>> >>>I was flying back from Barkaby to Finland Tampere (EFTP) via Ume (ESNU). >>>Two legs, 3 hrs and 1 hrs 20 minutes. >>>Half an hour from EFTP I met two thunder storm centres. I elected to fly >>>between >> them. >>>Seemed for me to be just a normal practise. QNH altitude 4000 feet, >>>airspeed 130 >> knots, >>>ground speed 150 knots, air temp 22C, plane was well trimmed and loaded >>>near MTOW >>>658 kg /1450 lbs.Almost overcast (5/8) about 6000 feet. We saw quite >>>strong lightnings >>>both sides. >>> >>>Suddenly I got a STRONG electric shock like static or similar to my >>>right >>>hand >> from the power lever. >>>My friend got a similar shock to his ears through head sets. >>>Very heavy raining started immediately. >>>Radio started awful whistling and whining. >>> >>>What the hell was happening we asked each others. >>>Plane was still flying well. >>>We saw no damages on the wing surfaces etc. >>>Radio stopped whistling after five minutes or so. >>>I was checking all the equipments I could. >>> >>>During that inspection I noticed I have no trim position display any more >>>(I have >> those green MAC leds). >>>I tried to trim but nothing happened. >>>CB (Europa suplied) was in position. >>>I tried via change over swith my another lower speed trim adjusting >>>switch >>>but >> nothing happened. >>>Just for in case I opened trim CB to avoid possibility of the trim >>>auto-run case. >>> >>>I have to mention we had with Jos a discussion of that case and he stated >>>that >> if it goes to the other side, >>>it is impossible to keep pitch control any more. And that discussion was >>>this >> morning! >>> >>>So, I was flying over EFTP. Altitude 3000 feet. There was a whole circus >>>like >> several fire trucks, police and >>>ambulances. Carefully I slowed the speed to 80 knots to test what happens >>>during >> flaps/gear lowering. >>>You remember I had lost my electric trim and it was trimmed for 130 >>>knots. >>> >>>During my normal abroach speed 70 knots I can tell you the nose was VERY >>>heavy >> but still controlable. >>>Just in case my strong friend helped me by pulling his stick also. >>>I keeped that speed until touching the runway and it was one of my best >>>monowheel >> landing ever >>>(like Jos reported today in his other case EFHF). >>> >>>ATC men, fire men and all the others congratulated me. We were alive and >>>OH-XRT >> was still in one piece. >>> >>>I taxied to the hangar and after half an hour trim motor started to work >>>by itself. >>>Still there was no its position lights. Trim CB was working normally. >>> >>>We fast checked the plane and obviously the lightning has gone trough >>>stbd-side >> stabilator pip-pin to the structure. The pip-pin cover (transparent >> sticker) >> was explosed and the head of the pip-pin was black. >>> >>>That was it. I drove home, kissed my daughters and wife and opened a >>>bottle of >> bier. >>> >>>BTW - when we were over EFTP, my friend measured my pulse rate and it was >>>150. >>> >>>That was an interesting experience. Some of you know that I made last >>>summer a >> serioush but super lucky >>>forced landing in Lappland because my Cessnas mechanical trim was working >>>uppsidedown. >>>That was because a service error of certified service company Arctic >>>Airservice. >>> >>>Trim controls are my nightmares and devils lurking to make me a bad day. >>> >>>I grounded my Europa of course. I am not sure what to do now. >>>If I later decide to continue flying, I have to fix it first and and >>>check >>>it >> carefully. >>>I called Jos (thank you) and he advised me to check everything. >>> >>>Have you there any ideas for me, please? >>> >>>Raimo >>>OH-XRT, 64 hrs, grounded so far >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 7 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield >> From: trevpond@aol.com >> >> Hi Paddy, >> >> Would have loved it but in France at the moment, returning tomorrow >> 5ish.?? >> >> All the best >> >> >> Trev >> G-LINN >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Paddy Clarke >> Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 13:13 >> Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Tue. 10th. Andrewsfield >> >> >> ? >> Hi Folks,? >> The weather should be good for tomorrow ( Tuesday 10th ), so how about a >> DOTH?. >> Unless anyone has any other ideas, I propose Andrewsfield.? >> Voucher in Pilot - 1200 ish,? >> Cheers, Paddy? >> ? >> Paddy Clarke? >> ? >> Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM? >> ? >> ? >> ? >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> >> ________________________________ Message 8 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> From: "Raimo Toivio" >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >> Barkaby >> Fly-inn Sweden (!). >> >> >> Paul, >> >> I read your lightning story and all went basically like mine yesterday >> >> "I have a shut off knob on the tunnel for the air box which supplies >> ventilation >> for the cabin and my knee was leaning up against it. I guess there is >> about >> 4 feet of cable, but it was enough to induce a significant voltage to >> electrocute >> me." >> >> That was for me an experience I will never forget. >> >> My Europas damages were anyway childrens play but it is always nice to >> belong to >> the same club as you. >> >> Do they say the strike does not hit the same plane never again, do they >> ??? >> >> Wishes, Raimo >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Paul McAllister" >> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 2:58 AM >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around >> Barkaby >> Fly-inn Sweden (!). >> >> >>> >>> Hi Ramio, >>> >>> Well I guess you have joined the club. Take a look at >>> http://www.europa.net.nz/363/index.html, click on the left hand pane >>> under flying experiences and you can read about the damage my aircraft >>> took with my lightning strike. >>> >>> By the way, I bought a lottery ticket straight after my hit but i >>> didn't win anything. I assume that I have used up all of my luck >>> >>> Cheers, Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 9 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> From: Rowland Carson >> Subject: Europa-List: rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module >> >> >> I'm just starting to highlight the trimming lines on the cockpit >> module with a fine felt-tip pen so I can see where to cut. >> >> I'm puzzled by the marks on the starboard side of the centre tunnel, >> at the side of the seat area. My printed manual does not identify any >> individual holes, but the PDF manual from the factory website marks >> it and the corresponding one on port as "rudder pulley access holes". >> The approximately-horizontal flanges on which they appear are >> asymmetrical - wider on the starboard side than the port. The port >> side hole is clearly outlined and also cross-hatched. On the >> starboard side are 2 oval areas about the same size and slightly >> overlapping. The outboard one is cross-hatched and the inboard one is >> not. >> >> Do I cut out just the hatched one, or just the unhatched one? >> >> My guess would be only the hatched one, as it appears to be in about >> the same relationship to the seat-pan as the port one. The central >> narrow part of the tunnel is veering off to port as it reaches the >> seat-back and that is what makes the starboard flange wider there, >> and I assume the rudder pulleys are located equidistant from the >> centreline or from the outside edge of the fuselage/cockpit module - >> thus the outboard (hatched) outline is the one that's needed. Perhaps >> the inboard position was marked in error and both correct ones have >> been hatched to better identify them. >> >> Roger at the factory says he thinks it should be the hatched one, but >> does anyone know any better before I start cutting? >> >> regards >> >> Rowland >> -- >> | Wilma & Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/ >> | ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 10 >> ____________________________________ >> >> >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module >> From: Fred Klein >> >> >> >> On Monday, Jun 9, 2008, at 15:00 US/Pacific, Rowland Carson wrote: >> >>> The approximately-horizontal flanges on which they appear are >>> asymmetrical - wider on the starboard side than the port. The port >>> side hole is clearly outlined and also cross-hatched. On the starboard >>> side are 2 oval areas about the same size and slightly overlapping. >>> The outboard one is cross-hatched and the inboard one is not. >>> >>> Do I cut out just the hatched one, or just the unhatched one? >>> >>> My guess would be only the hatched one, as it appears to be in about >>> the same relationship to the seat-pan as the port one. The central >>> narrow part of the tunnel is veering off to port as it reaches the >>> seat-back and that is what makes the starboard flange wider there, and >>> I assume the rudder pulleys are located equidistant from the >>> centreline or from the outside edge of the fuselage/cockpit module - >>> thus the outboard (hatched) outline is the one that's needed. >> >> Rowland, >> >> Though I can no longer see the hairlines indicating the access hole >> locations, you are correct in reasoning that the holes want to be in >> the same relationship to the seat flanges, NOT in the same >> relationship to the central narrow part of the tunnel which I >> mistakenly used when I made my initial cuts. (Easily remedied w/ a >> small patch and some 5 min. epoxy.) Take the starboard side as a guide >> and duplicate it on the port side and you'll be good to go. >> >> Fred >> >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and >> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is >> believed to be clean. >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 11 >> ____________________________________ >> >> >> From: jason Parker >> Subject: Europa-List: fuel injected 912 is running great >> >> >> Read about how I fuel injected my Titan Tornado in 3 weeks. Ialso have a >> customer with a Europa who has one of my 914's. He will be ready to fire >> up his engine in a month or two. mine is runningGreat! I'll add some >> videos on UTUBE and a link on my >> site.www.experimentalfuelinjection.com/wst_page4 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > From giani@ntlworld.com Tue Jun 10 10:47:53 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: rudder pulley access holes in cockpit module Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:47:53 From: G-IANI I remember my tunnel was confusingly marked. I think it was the hatched one. The logic is can you get a spanner on to the pulley nut via the hole. Something to think about is the need to make removable covers for these holes. You do not want you favourite pen falling into the pulley wheels. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com From TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Tue Jun 10 07:43:31 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:43:31 From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com In a message dated 6/10/2008 3:00:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Before I head off to Asia, I plan to put aluminium mesh right along the aileron and flap close outs joining to the rear lift pin to allow wing tip to wing tip lightning travel Hi David, FWIW, my wife and I had lightning strike very near us while flying our Ximango last summer on a 500K attempt. We were deep in a drought here and it hadn't rained in 4 months. The lift was fantastic for this area during this time, i.e, greater than 10 knots to going to 10,000'+ agl every day. I had been flying long cross country flights every day for about 3 weeks, including several successful 500k attempts. There had not been even a hint of weather overdevelopment during that time. We were about 300K into the attempt and were approaching a nearby gliderport that was our last turnpoint for the final home run leg to complete the 500K. There was a fairly large storm about 20 miles away, but we were in clear air between puffy, friendly cumulus clouds at about 9000'. We were gliding along engine off at about 80 knots between thermals when a lightning bolt struck right out in front of us out of clear blue sky. I'd always heard that this could happen, but I'd never witnessed it first hand. We saw where it hit the ground and where that was in relation to our turn point. According to the GPS and our observation, the lightning was no more than 1/4th of a mile or so in front of us. The flash and the resulting boom were almost simultaneous. Needless to say it got our attention. I immediately aborted the course in an abrupt 90 degree wingover and proceeded to put as much distance between us and that storm as possible. The rest of the flight was uneventful. Whether or not we triggered the strike is unknown. It didn't hit us and there was no damage to the aircraft. I probably hyper-extended my sphincter muscle, though. After we returned to my strip I began to wonder if the Ximango was bonded. So, I started inspecting. Turns out that Aeromot did bond virtually every metal surface in the aircraft together. They used fairly heavy gauge braided jumpers made from tinned copper to tie everything metal together to prevent arcing. I'm considering doing the same to my Europa. I certainly give thunderboomers a much wider berth these days. Regards, John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89) N245E - Flying **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) From butcher43@att.net Tue Jun 10 05:39:50 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Comm Antenna Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 05:39:50 From: h&jeuropa I seem to have these problems pretty well solved. Initially tried shielded cables (shield grounded to A/C ground point near inst panel - unconnected at other end) with lots of toroids to the ELT and Magnetometer. Also made the interconnect between the Primary Flight Display and the MFD a shielded cable. Had little or no effect. Then tried just shielded cable (no toroids) to ELT and wrapped the entire ELT in aluminum foil. Foil is connected to the cable shield and ground is as before. That solved the ELT problem. From other forums I learned that there are D Sub filters which have capacitors built in bypassing each connection to the shell of the connector. Acquired Spectrum Control Series 100 filters, 5600 pf (from Newark Electronics) for the Magnetometer and the PFD (main display). At the Magnetometer I connected the cable shield to the D Sub shell since the shell is floating inside the Mag and I needed a return for the filter. Found the PFD filter didn't have any effect but the Mag helped some. Finally wrapped the Mag in aluminum foil which is connected to the shield and that seemed to solve the problems. I think there is so much RF from the com antenna and no shielding because of the composite, that it overwhelms the ELT and Magnetometer. I also found a local ham with an antenna analyzer (MFJ Model 269) and had a look at my com antenna. Found it had very low SWR but the resistance of the antenna changed if I walked near the antenna and the resistance was not constant or nearly so across the 118 to 136 Mhz range. We both suspected the toroid balun just didn't perform properly. So we decided to make a balun from coax as the ham radio books have shown for years. It is very much like the one on the Aero Electric website except the length of the balun section is an electrical half wavelength, so you must take into account the velocity factor of the cable. Using RG400 (vf=.695), the balun section is 16 1/4" long. Took off the toroids and installed the new balun. Had to trim the antenna to get the SWR low near the center of the band, but now the SWR is less than 2:1 across the entire band, the resistance stays constant and walking near the antenna makes no difference. Hope this helps someone else. Jim Butcher Europa N241BW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=187108#187108 From fklein@orcasonline.com Tue Jun 10 06:59:31 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 06:59:31 From: Fred Klein On Tuesday, Jun 10, 2008, at 04:43 US/Pacific, TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote: > They used fairly heavy gauge-braided jumpers made from tinned > copper-to tie everything metal-together to prevent arcing. Nice, thoughtful post John...thanks...If you locate a source for this braided jumper material, spread it around...I've known there was a reason I haven't closed my wings yet...Fred -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From rowil@clara.net Tue Jun 10 16:19:29 2008 Subject: Europa-List: cockpit module trimming Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:19:29 From: Rowland Carson Thanks to all those who responded to my rudder pulley access holes query. Now, here's the next one: The manual says trim to the joggle line at the front end of the cockpit module. Mostly that's fine, the tiny line on th einside of the CM follows the edge of the joggle across the rudder pedal support and up the sides of the tunnel. However, along the top of the tunnel there is a discrepancy. The joggle is about 20mm down from the edge as supplied, then the tiny line is about 20mm below that again. If I trim to the line rather than the joggle, there will still be abut 30mm of flange left, and that will be about the same width as up the sides of the tunnel where line & joggle coincide. The drawing appears to show that the flange is about the same width all around the tunnel. Roger at the factory says he thinks (HE THINKS) that the line is where to cut, but I'd welcome a second opinion. (I'd prefer not to have a flange 20mm too narrow!) Anyone remember checking this with the factory while Andy or Neville were still there? regards Rowland -- | Wilma & Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/ | ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... From carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk Tue Jun 10 16:31:46 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:31:46 From: Carl Pattinson Not sure thats a terribly good idea. The lightning will take the path of least resistance and probably travel through the aileron push rods and accross the fuselage (where the control rods pass within an inch of the fuel tank !!!!) If the current is high enough, the alloy pushrods will melt like a piece of fusewire. If you dont believe me, read this. It is a sobering story - The Dunstable glider lightning strike. Not sure if there is an easy solution. ----- Original Message ----- From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:43 PM Subject: Europa-List: Lightning bonding In a message dated 6/10/2008 3:00:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Before I head off to Asia, I plan to put aluminium mesh right along the aileron and flap close outs joining to the rear lift pin to allow wing tip to wing tip lightning travel From christoph.both@acadiau.ca Tue Jun 10 12:39:29 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:39:29 From: Christoph Both Time to take chutes up again like glider pilots do... Best, Christoph Both #223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia Canada -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Pattinson Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:32 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Not sure thats a terribly good idea. The lightning will take the path of least resistance and probably travel through the aileron push rods and accross the fuselage (where the control rods pass within an inch of the fuel tank !!!!) If the current is high enough, the alloy pushrods will melt like a piece of fusewire. If you dont believe me, read this. It is a sobering story - The Dunstable glider lightning strike. Not sure if there is an easy solution. ----- Original Message ----- From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:43 PM Subject: Europa-List: Lightning bonding In a message dated 6/10/2008 3:00:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Before I head off to Asia, I plan to put aluminium mesh right along the aileron and flap close outs joining to the rear lift pin to allow wing tip to wing tip lightning travel From wdaniell@etb.net.co Tue Jun 10 11:45:07 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:45:07 From: William Daniell Displaying my ignorance yet again could somebody explain the principle involved? I am assuming that the lightning needs a conductive path to travel into, through and out the other side of the aircraft. Is this correct? Any gaps will acts as a giant spark plug gap and cause structural damage?? From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 06:44 Subject: Europa-List: Lightning bonding In a message dated 6/10/2008 3:00:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Before I head off to Asia, I plan to put aluminium mesh right along the aileron and flap close outs joining to the rear lift pin to allow wing tip to wing tip lightning travel Hi David, FWIW, my wife and I had lightning strike very near us while flying our Ximango last summer on a 500K attempt. We were deep in a drought here and it hadn't rained in 4 months. The lift was fantastic for this area during this time, i.e, greater than 10 knots to going to 10,000'+ agl every day. I had been flying long cross country flights every day for about 3 weeks, including several successful 500k attempts. There had not been even a hint of weather overdevelopment during that time. We were about 300K into the attempt and were approaching a nearby gliderport that was our last turnpoint for the final home run leg to complete the 500K. There was a fairly large storm about 20 miles away, but we were in clear air between puffy, friendly cumulus clouds at about 9000'. We were gliding along engine off at about 80 knots between thermals when a lightning bolt struck right out in front of us out of clear blue sky. I'd always heard that this could happen, but I'd never witnessed it first hand. We saw where it hit the ground and where that was in relation to our turn point. According to the GPS and our observation, the lightning was no more than 1/4th of a mile or so in front of us. The flash and the resulting boom were almost simultaneous. Needless to say it got our attention. I immediately aborted the course in an abrupt 90 degree wingover and proceeded to put as much distance between us and that storm as possible. The rest of the flight was uneventful. Whether or not we triggered the strike is unknown. It didn't hit us and there was no damage to the aircraft. I probably hyper-extended my sphincter muscle, though. After we returned to my strip I began to wonder if the Ximango was bonded. So, I started inspecting. Turns out that Aeromot did bond virtually every metal surface in the aircraft together. They used fairly heavy gauge braided jumpers made from tinned copper to tie everything metal together to prevent arcing. I'm considering doing the same to my Europa. I certainly give thunderboomers a much wider berth these days. Regards, John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89) N245E - Flying Checked by AVG. 17:32 Checked by AVG. 17:32 From pete@lawless.info Tue Jun 10 18:27:01 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:27:01 From: Pete Lawless The problem is that the Europa is made of Tupperware so there is no metal skin for the electricity to flow through, hence it is possible for it to flow though the aileron push rods or the elevator push rod and possibly vapourise them in the process. Some glass aeroplanes have a metal or carbon mesh built into the structure to conduct the lightning around the outside. There was a glider over Dunstable a couple of years ago that had a wing literally blown apart by the effect of a lightning strike. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 10 June 2008 17:45 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Displaying my ignorance yet again could somebody explain the principle involved? I am assuming that the lightning needs a conductive path to travel into, through and out the other side of the aircraft. Is this correct? Any gaps will acts as a giant spark plug gap and cause structural damage?? From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 06:44 Subject: Europa-List: Lightning bonding In a message dated 6/10/2008 3:00:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Before I head off to Asia, I plan to put aluminium mesh right along the aileron and flap close outs joining to the rear lift pin to allow wing tip to wing tip lightning travel Hi David, FWIW, my wife and I had lightning strike very near us while flying our Ximango last summer on a 500K attempt. We were deep in a drought here and it hadn't rained in 4 months. The lift was fantastic for this area during this time, i.e, greater than 10 knots to going to 10,000'+ agl every day. I had been flying long cross country flights every day for about 3 weeks, including several successful 500k attempts. There had not been even a hint of weather overdevelopment during that time. We were about 300K into the attempt and were approaching a nearby gliderport that was our last turnpoint for the final home run leg to complete the 500K. There was a fairly large storm about 20 miles away, but we were in clear air between puffy, friendly cumulus clouds at about 9000'. We were gliding along engine off at about 80 knots between thermals when a lightning bolt struck right out in front of us out of clear blue sky. I'd always heard that this could happen, but I'd never witnessed it first hand. We saw where it hit the ground and where that was in relation to our turn point. According to the GPS and our observation, the lightning was no more than 1/4th of a mile or so in front of us. The flash and the resulting boom were almost simultaneous. Needless to say it got our attention. I immediately aborted the course in an abrupt 90 degree wingover and proceeded to put as much distance between us and that storm as possible. The rest of the flight was uneventful. Whether or not we triggered the strike is unknown. It didn't hit us and there was no damage to the aircraft. I probably hyper-extended my sphincter muscle, though. After we returned to my strip I began to wonder if the Ximango was bonded. So, I started inspecting. Turns out that Aeromot did bond virtually every metal surface in the aircraft together. They used fairly heavy gauge braided jumpers made from tinned copper to tie everything metal together to prevent arcing. I'm considering doing the same to my Europa. I certainly give thunderboomers a much wider berth these days. Regards, John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89) N245E - Flying Checked by AVG. 08-Jun-08 17:32 Checked by AVG. 08-Jun-08 17:32 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, and is believed to be clean. From ropa1300xs@cox.net Tue Jun 10 21:09:31 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Advisory to Notice of Sale Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:09:31 From: johnb Hello Europaphiles: Please be advised of two (2) notices of sale in the, "Looking to Sell", section of this message board. In addition to details concerning each opportunity, contact information has been included. I truly appreciate the luxury to post this advisory. Many happy landings . . . "Thank-U", John B. Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org From wdaniell@etb.net.co Tue Jun 10 14:20:27 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:20:27 From: William Daniell Thanks that explaines it. Hope they were wearing a parachute. From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:27 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding The problem is that the Europa is made of Tupperware so there is no metal skin for the electricity to flow through, hence it is possible for it to flow though the aileron push rods or the elevator push rod and possibly vapourise them in the process. Some glass aeroplanes have a metal or carbon mesh built into the structure to conduct the lightning around the outside. There was a glider over Dunstable a couple of years ago that had a wing literally blown apart by the effect of a lightning strike. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- Checked by AVG. 17:32 From ira.rampil@gmail.com Tue Jun 10 13:06:46 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Lightning bonding Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 13:06:46 From: rampil Lightning and composite a/c are just a bit more complicated than the discussion so far suggests: wing mesh is more useful for static dissipation rather than lightning protection. Static dissipation is important to assure your Nav/Comm works in the clouds. The reason it does not work for lightning is that the tiny conductors of a mesh will melt, or vaporize explosively if hundreds to thousands of Amps pass through. You can't put enough metal into a composite a/c to safely conduct a direct lightning strike. Even metal a/c burn through at the points of entry and exit where the current density is highest. The same applies to bonding straps to control surfaces - for conduction of and reduction of microamps of static charge, not lightning protection. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=187216#187216 From kheindl@msn.com Tue Jun 10 21:16:51 2008 Subject: Europa-List: FW: Glider wings Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:16:51 From: Karl Heindl Hello glider builders, Can someone give me some input on the two questions below ? The manual give s little or no information on how to fit the ailerons, and there is no one left at the factory who knows anything about the long wings. 1) I am doing a dry-fit of the ailerons, but I notice that the GA02 plate with AN4 bolt etc. is projecting above the top of the aileron (see page 7-6 , diag. 13), and it couldn't possibly fit into the narrow closeout.The only solution is to cut a slot into the top wing skin. What did you do ? Maybe a small fairing on the wing would reduce turbulence in that spot. 2) The ma nual tells us to bond on the outer panel and then fit the ailerons. That do esn't make sense to me, as there is no guarantee that the ailerons will sti ll fit, and then I would have a real problem. The short wings were closed w ith aileron in place and a spacer between aileron and wing skin. I intend t o do it the same way with the glider wings. I can already see that the aile ron is rubbing against the closeout a little at each end and I am removing a small piece of the carbon fiber closeout for clearance. How did you fitth e ailerons ? Best regards, Karl

From paddyclarke@lineone.net Tue Jun 10 21:36:39 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Apology and Suggestions? Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:36:39 From: Paddy Clarke Hi Folks, Firstly an apology to all those good souls who made the DOTH to Andrewsfield today, that I didn't. The reason I didn't was that my engine decided to misbehave on takeoff. Run-up was normal and I got my normal max RPM on power application, but after approx 50m the RPM dropped to 5400. I abandoned T/O suspecting the prop controller - 5400 is the Airmaster climb power setting. However having exercised the controller, I did another power run and the engine was definitely unhappy. It was very rough above 4000 RPM and couldn't reach the normal max and the EGT reading was right up. Trying the separate ignition circuits certainly made it run rougher, but neither side much worse than the other. I taxied back suspecting a plug lead off - I've had that before- but on removing the cowlings all leads were in place. I then took out all the plugs, they looked pristine and all identical. I took off the carb bowls and gascolator - absolutely no sign of anything other than clean, clear fuel. I put it all back together and it ran perfectly, giving max RPM with stable fuel flow and moderate EGT for a good 2 mins. I decided to bite the bullet and do a couple of short flights, again no problems. One thing that springs to mind is fuel vaporization, but it was the first flight of the day and not particularly warm. I am using mogas and the aircraft had been fully fueled but left in a covered hangar - recent daytime temperatures up to 24 deg C, nighttime probably no lower than 15. However I have done approx 750 hrs, many times in much higher temperatures, (though it has to be said that the highest temperatures would have been on the continent using Avgas), and I have never had this problem before. The aircraft was standing out in full sun on a warm day before my 2 short flights, but here was no hint of a reoccurrence. Has anyone had anything similar, or got any suggestions? All the best, Paddy Paddy Clarke Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM From budyerly@msn.com Tue Jun 10 16:37:06 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Araldite 420/2102 - Availabilty Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:37:06 From: ALAN YERLY Craig, All my epoxy is freshly made. Huntsman will not make a shipment unless it is all fresh. From the manufacturer supplied product data sheets, Araldite 420 is three years using the unopened containers supplied. Epibond, which is in metal cans, has only been tested to one year for storage and that is what the data sheet says from Huntsman. Maybe your containers are different down under. Yes the metal cans lasts longer just like the Araldite, but I have to go by the product data sheet supplied. It is the container of the hardener that makes the difference ---From what I see. Once opened, it is hard to get a good seal on the cans. I transfer my hardener to a small neck glass bottle with a tight metal cap and have no problems. It doesn't even get a scum layer. The resin is never a problem. I am working with Europa about a substitute of Hysol 9309.3NA. Don't look for a huge price difference though. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: craig bastin To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 4:58 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Araldite 420/2102 - Availabilty I dont know about your expiry times Bud, Are you sure they are sending you new batches. Like you I am forced to buy the six quart cases and the last one I got, new from the australian distributor in september 07 and it is quoting an expiry of june 2010 price was much the same $1280 a case of 6 craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of ALAN YERLY Sent: Saturday, 24 May 2008 4:14 AM To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Araldite 420/2102 - Availabilty Roger, and other Europa Builders in need of Redux also known as Araldite 420 or Epibond 420 A/B. I order Redux in cases direct through my long time distributor TAPE. As there is no other acceptable substitute for Redux, for the Europa and as a result I am still buying it in bulk and shipping it. I have looked for substitutes, and many epoxies are as strong, but none as ductile or willing to be used in aircraft. I have been informed by my US distributor of Epibond 420 A/B (Redux) that the manufacturer, Huntsman Products in California, has restructured their pricing and packaging. I have been in contact with my distributor and Huntsman over the last four months trying to resolve the issue. Gladly, Huntsman has at least changed their policy and have agreed to distribute Epibond 420 in 6 quart cases again. Unfortunately, Huntsman has nearly doubled the price per case with no significant bulk discounts available for multiple cases. I've researched importing fresh Redux from overseas and it is slightly more costly due to the weak dollar and high shipping/hazardous fees. If I order soon, and I can still combine with other distributors I can get 6 quarts for about $280 a quart plus shipping to you (typically $20). Yes, I know that is $120 more than last year. Airbus is the primary user so if anyone knows someone at Airbus that can steal you some and smuggle it into the states, we are stuck with some pretty ugly prices. Delivery is 30-45 days to me so it will all be a fresh batch. Shelf life is a year opened or unopened but usually good for at least two if unopened. I have tentative orders for 2-3 quarts so far. I need three others. Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations Europa Distributor Cell 813-244-8354 ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Lowe To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 12:09 PM Subject: Europa-List: Araldite 420/2102 - Availabilty > Everyone, Has anyone been able to source Araldite 420 and Araldite 2102 (rapid epoxy) in the US or Canada? If you have, can you forward me their contact information. The stuff from my partially completed kit that I have purchased has expired. The stuff I believe is classified as hazardous material for shipping and I'm in Canada so I'll need to find out if the vendor can ship it here too. OR Is there an "approved" alternative that can be used that is readily available in US or Canada? Thanks, Roger Lowe A252 Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org nbsp; Features Chat, --> http://www.matron=================== === bsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution From willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk Tue Jun 10 22:11:35 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Apology and Suggestions? Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:11:35 From: William Harrison Paddy I wonder if that is a sticking valve? It would be evident from a low compression on one of the cyls. Willie G-BZNY - got its Permit back yesterday... On 10 Jun 2008, at 21:36, Paddy Clarke wrote: > > > Hi Folks, > Firstly an apology to all those good souls who made the DOTH to > Andrewsfield today, that I didn't. > The reason I didn't was that my engine decided to misbehave on > takeoff. Run-up was normal and I got my normal max RPM on power > application, but after approx 50m the RPM dropped to 5400. I > abandoned T/O suspecting the prop controller - 5400 is the > Airmaster climb power setting. However having exercised the > controller, I did another power run and the engine was definitely > unhappy. It was very rough above 4000 RPM and couldn't reach the > normal max and the EGT reading was right up. Trying the separate > ignition circuits certainly made it run rougher, but neither side > much worse than the other. > I taxied back suspecting a plug lead off - I've had that before- > but on removing the cowlings all leads were in place. I then took > out all the plugs, they looked pristine and all identical. I took > off the carb bowls and gascolator - absolutely no sign of anything > other than clean, clear fuel. > I put it all back together and it ran perfectly, giving max RPM > with stable fuel flow and moderate EGT for a good 2 mins. > I decided to bite the bullet and do a couple of short flights, > again no problems. > One thing that springs to mind is fuel vaporization, but it was the > first flight of the day and not particularly warm. I am using mogas > and the aircraft had been fully fueled but left in a covered hangar > - recent daytime temperatures up to 24 deg C, nighttime probably no > lower than 15. However I have done approx 750 hrs, many times in > much higher temperatures, (though it has to be said that the > highest temperatures would have been on the continent using Avgas), > and I have never had this problem before. The aircraft was standing > out in full sun on a warm day before my 2 short flights, but here > was no hint of a reoccurrence. > Has anyone had anything similar, or got any suggestions? > All the best, Paddy > > > Paddy Clarke > > Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM > > From groups@bobcroweaircraft.com Tue Jun 10 22:14:51 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Apology and Suggestions? Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:14:51 From: Tony Crowe It could have been carb ice Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paddy Clarke" Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 9:36 PM Subject: Europa-List: Apology and Suggestions? > > Hi Folks, > Firstly an apology to all those good souls who made the DOTH to > Andrewsfield today, that I didn't. > The reason I didn't was that my engine decided to misbehave on > takeoff. Run-up was normal and I got my normal max RPM on power > application, but after approx 50m the RPM dropped to 5400. I > abandoned T/O suspecting the prop controller - 5400 is the Airmaster > climb power setting. However having exercised the controller, I did > another power run and the engine was definitely unhappy. It was very > rough above 4000 RPM and couldn't reach the normal max and the EGT > reading was right up. Trying the separate ignition circuits certainly > made it run rougher, but neither side much worse than the other. > I taxied back suspecting a plug lead off - I've had that before- but > on removing the cowlings all leads were in place. I then took out all > the plugs, they looked pristine and all identical. I took off the > carb bowls and gascolator - absolutely no sign of anything other than > clean, clear fuel. > I put it all back together and it ran perfectly, giving max RPM with > stable fuel flow and moderate EGT for a good 2 mins. > I decided to bite the bullet and do a couple of short flights, again > no problems. > One thing that springs to mind is fuel vaporization, but it was the > first flight of the day and not particularly warm. I am using mogas > and the aircraft had been fully fueled but left in a covered hangar - > recent daytime temperatures up to 24 deg C, nighttime probably no > lower than 15. However I have done approx 750 hrs, many times in much > higher temperatures, (though it has to be said that the highest > temperatures would have been on the continent using Avgas), and I > have never had this problem before. The aircraft was standing out in > full sun on a warm day before my 2 short flights, but here was no > hint of a reoccurrence. > Has anyone had anything similar, or got any suggestions? > All the best, Paddy > > > Paddy Clarke > > Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM > > > > > > From pete@lawless.info Tue Jun 10 22:46:29 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:46:29 From: Pete Lawless They were and both lived to tell the tale. The lad in the back seat got burns to his neck. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 10 June 2008 20:20 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Thanks that explaines it. Hope they were wearing a parachute. From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:27 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding The problem is that the Europa is made of Tupperware so there is no metal skin for the electricity to flow through, hence it is possible for it to flow though the aileron push rods or the elevator push rod and possibly vapourise them in the process. Some glass aeroplanes have a metal or carbon mesh built into the structure to conduct the lightning around the outside. There was a glider over Dunstable a couple of years ago that had a wing literally blown apart by the effect of a lightning strike. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- Checked by AVG. 08-Jun-08 17:32 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Tue Jun 10 23:10:47 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 23:10:47 From: David Joyce Fred & al, As I see it the problem with bonding aileron push rods is that they don't go to the end of the wings.Ideally I think you need a conductor that extends to the wing tips and also possibly one that is not inside the wing cavity. In the quoted glider incident (which happened in 1999 at Northall, just North of London, CAA occurrence no. 199902166) the heat generated by the lightning arcing through the wing surface to the control runs was thought to be enough to massively expand the contained air and blow the wing skins off. There is a caveat however to basing too much on that incident as investigation showed that the power of that particular lightning bolt was exceptional, in fact seven times higher than the power that certified aircraft are designed to withstand. Nevertheless I like the notion of a conductor that isn't connected to the bit I am holding, and feel there is a good chance of the aluminium mesh in the close out approach conducting lesser bolts straight through without giving me or my avionics a nasty shock! As an amusing postscript to the glider story the passenger in the 2 seat glider was having a trial flight. As he hadn't had his money's worth the club offered him a free repeat, but he is said to have declined! Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Klein" Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 2:59 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning bonding On Tuesday, Jun 10, 2008, at 04:43 US/Pacific, TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote: > They used fairly heavy gauge braided jumpers made from tinned > copper to tie everything metal together to prevent arcing. Nice, thoughtful post John...thanks...If you locate a source for this braided jumper material, spread it around...I've known there was a reason I haven't closed my wings yet...Fred -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From wdaniell@etb.net.co Tue Jun 10 17:26:05 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:26:05 From: William Daniell So they managed to jump? -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 17:11 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Fred & al, As I see it the problem with bonding aileron push rods is that they don't go to the end of the wings.Ideally I think you need a conductor that extends to the wing tips and also possibly one that is not inside the wing cavity. In the quoted glider incident (which happened in 1999 at Northall, just North of London, CAA occurrence no. 199902166) the heat generated by the lightning arcing through the wing surface to the control runs was thought to be enough to massively expand the contained air and blow the wing skins off. There is a caveat however to basing too much on that incident as investigation showed that the power of that particular lightning bolt was exceptional, in fact seven times higher than the power that certified aircraft are designed to withstand. Nevertheless I like the notion of a conductor that isn't connected to the bit I am holding, and feel there is a good chance of the aluminium mesh in the close out approach conducting lesser bolts straight through without giving me or my avionics a nasty shock! As an amusing postscript to the glider story the passenger in the 2 seat glider was having a trial flight. As he hadn't had his money's worth the club offered him a free repeat, but he is said to have declined! Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Klein" Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 2:59 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning bonding Checked by AVG. 17:32 From terrys@cisco.com Tue Jun 10 15:29:19 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: FW: Glider wings Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:29:19 From: Terry Seaver terrys Hi Karl, 1) You are correct in saying the aileron push rod and rod end will need a slot in the top of the skin and a small fairing on top to make it clean. We fabricated a soft aluminum piece and bonded it in place with silicon caulk (RTV). 2) The ailerons do not fit the closeouts very well. As I recall, we needed to grind away a good portion of the rear of the closeout, and ended up with the ailerons a little higher than the top of the closeout and just live with it. regards, Terry Seaver ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:17 PM Subject: Europa-List: FW: Glider wings Hello glider builders, Can someone give me some input on the two questions below ? The manual gives little or no information on how to fit the ailerons, and there is no one left at the factory who knows anything about the long wings. 1) I am doing a dry-fit of the ailerons, but I notice that the GA02 plate with AN4 bolt etc. is projecting above the top of the aileron (see page 7-6, diag. 13), and it couldn't possibly fit into the narrow closeout. The only solution is to cut a slot into the top wing skin. What did you do ? Maybe a small fairing on the wing would reduce turbulence in that spot. 2) The manual tells us to bond on the outer panel and then fit the ailerons. That doesn't make sense to me, as there is no guarantee that the ailerons will still fit, and then I would have a real problem. The short wings were closed with aileron in place and a spacer between aileron and wing skin. I intend to do it the same way with the glider wings. I can already see that the aileron is rubbing against the closeout a little at each end and I am removing a small piece of the carbon fiber closeout for clearance. How did you fit the ailerons ? Best regards, Karl

From kheindl@msn.com Tue Jun 10 23:58:42 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: FW: Glider wings Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 23:58:42 From: Karl Heindl Hi Terry, Thank you for that confirmation. On question 2, did you do the final bondin g with the aileron in place ? In theory, that should have given a good fit. regards, Karl

Subject: RE: Europa-List: FW: Glider wingsDate: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:29:19 - 0700From: terrys@cisco.comTo: europa-list@matronics.com Hi Karl, 1) You are correct in saying the aileron push rod and rod end will need a s lot in the top of the skin and a small fairing on top to make it clean. We fabricated a soft aluminum piece and bonded it in place with silicon caulk (RTV). 2) The ailerons do not fit the closeouts very well. As I recall, we needed to grind away a good portion of the rear of the closeout, and ended up wit h the ailerons a little higher than the top of the closeout and just live w ith it. regards, Terry Seaver From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl HeindlSent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:17 PMTo: europa-list@matronics.comSubject: Europa-List: FW: Glider wings Hello glider builders, Can someone give me some input on the two questions below ? The manual gives little or no information on how to fit the aileron s, and there is no one left at the factory who knows anything about the lon g wings. 1) I am doing a dry-fit of the ailerons, but I notice that the GA02 plate with AN4 bolt etc. is projecting above the top of the aileron (see page 7-6 , diag. 13), and it couldn't possibly fit into the narrow closeout.The only solution is to cut a slot into the top wing skin. What did you do ? Maybe a small fairing on the wing would reduce turbulence in that spot. 2) The ma nual tells us to bond on the outer panel and then fit the ailerons. That do esn't make sense to me, as there is no guarantee that the ailerons will sti ll fit, and then I would have a real problem. The short wings were closed w ith aileron in place and a spacer between aileron and wing skin. I intend t o do it the same way with the glider wings. I can already see that the aile ron is rubbing against the closeout a little at each end and I am removing a small piece of the carbon fiber closeout for clearance. How did you fitth e ailerons ? Best regards, Karl

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhr ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c From ward.t@xtra.co.nz Wed Jun 11 22:53:33 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel Tailwheel fairing Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 22:53:33 From: Tim Ward Hi there, Has anyone made an effective tailwheel fairing protection cap. I have found the damage on the fairing leading edge has been quite substantial. Any ideas of a fix? Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street, Fendalton, CHRISTCHURCH 8052 NEW ZEALAND Ph :64 03 3515166 Mob: 021 0640221 email: ward.t@xtra.co.nz From TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Wed Jun 11 08:05:22 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Re: lightning bonding Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:05:22 From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com In a message dated 6/11/2008 3:03:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Not sure thats a terribly good idea. Hi Carl, et al, Apparently, the FAA and Aeromot think it is a good idea. The Ximango is a certified aircraft, has aluminum fuel tanks and they, too, are bonded to the rest of the metallic parts in the aircraft. In their parts manual, Aeromot refers to these bonding straps installed as "lightning bonding." As it has been explained to me by our resident composite Guru here at the 'Possum Werks, what happens in composite airplanes in a lightning strike to make them explode is the super heating of residual moisture that is trapped within the layers of epoxy and cloth at the time of manufacture. When the strike passes through the composite, trapped moisture rapidly heats, expands and the structure comes apart explosively. Having designed, installed and tested lightning protection systems on over 7000 cellular telephone sites, I've seen this phenomenon quite a bit with fiberglass antenna masts on poorly grounded sites. When a cell antenna takes a direct hit it explodes. The tower can take a direct hit and only slight discoloration will result. The result of an exploded antenna mast is similar to what you see after one of those exploding cigars goes off. If the site is properly grounded and bonded, this almost never happens, though. What you are trying to do with bonding metallic parts in a plastic airplane is give the lightning a low resistance path to pass through and exit the airplane so that it doesn't take a high resistance (i.e., through the composite) path to exit and destroy the airplane. Low resistance is the key here. By providing a low resistance path for the lightning to pass though you reduce or eliminate the instantaneous heating that occurs in high resistance paths during a discharge. You also want to prevent arcing that would occur at loose metallic fittings, such as rod ends and any metallic parts that are bolted together. These are points of high resistance and arcing (and welding) can result. What you are doing here is making all the metallic parts equal in resistance, therefore equal in potential when charged. Ohm's law at work. I've heard of more than one occurrence of gliders that did not have bonded control systems being struck in flight and having their control rods welded to the point where the aircraft was no longer controllable and the occupant(s) were forced to bail out. These bolted connections are precisely where the bonding straps are installed on the Ximango. The bonding straps that are installed, given their size, are designed to take a lot more current than a simple static discharge. They are essentially the same thing we install to bond and protect towers, transmission equipment, batteries, fencing, coax, antennae, etc., in cell sites ---From lightning. The reason braided cable is used is surface area. The more surface area, the more current it can handle. Braided cable has much, much more surface area than typical Tefzel aircraft wire or a solid wire, thus more current handling capacity. Is it a cure all? No. There is no such thing as perfect lightning protection. Will it help save your bacon in a residual discharge situation? Probably. Will it save your bacon in a direct hit? Probably not. Fred, as far as a source on the bonding straps, try Harger. _www.harger.com_ (http://www.harger.com) . If it has anything to do with lightning protection, Harger carries it. Hope it helps! Regards, John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89) N245E - Flying **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) From paul.the.aviator@gmail.com Wed Jun 11 07:58:52 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monowheel Tailwheel fairing Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 07:58:52 From: Paul McAllister Hi Tim, I think Ramio was experimenting with some tail wheel fairing protection. He might be worth a try. Regards, Paul From ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk Wed Jun 11 20:00:54 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tailwheel fairing Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:00:54 From: Duncan & Ami McFadyean A covering of anti abrasion tape (helicopter rotor tape) has prevented mine from eroding. The faring itself is also more stoutly built (more plies). Not much use applying it after the event! Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Ward To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:53 AM Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel Tailwheel fairing Hi there, Has anyone made an effective tailwheel fairing protection cap. I have found the damage on the fairing leading edge has been quite substantial. Any ideas of a fix? Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street, Fendalton, CHRISTCHURCH 8052 NEW ZEALAND Ph :64 03 3515166 Mob: 021 0640221 email: ward.t@xtra.co.nz From mp.gamble@tiscali.co.uk Wed Jun 11 21:46:09 2008 Subject: Europa-List: XS trailer Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:46:09 From: Mike Gamble Anyone have an XS mono trailer for sale in southern UK? Please contact me off line. Mike Gamble From willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk Thu Jun 12 12:05:51 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Fix for common Garmin GPS problem Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 12:05:51 From: William Harrison My Garmin 296 had an unwelcome failure yesterday - it couldn't acquire satellites. I was about to send it back for repair today but Garmin UK tech support gave me a simple diagnosis and fix for what they said is a known failure mode. Since this is likely to be experienced by other users I thought I'd pass on the details. I expect this also applies to 495 and 496 units, possibly also the 196 (I never saw it on my 295, however). Typically, they said, the unit doesn=92t acquire satellites on the second flight after long period of non-use (anything over 6 weeks) . Diagnosis was that unit hadn=92t and wasn=92t able to rebuild its almanac table - presumably it had been struggling with an incomplete/ corrupted table during the first flight and then went on strike the next time it was powered up. Said to be a known problem. The fix is: =B7 Switch off =B7 Press and hold down =93zoom out=94 button =B7 Switch on =B7 Wait until =93I agree=94 dialog window comes up and press =93enter=94 in the usual way =B7 Then release the =93zoom out=94 button (the above process wipes the almanac table so the unit can restart from scratch) =B7 Unit goes into autolocate mode ' leave it powered up in the same location for half an hour with a clear view of the sky to rebuild its almanac table (even if it locates and displays the map much sooner). That's it. It worked for me. Seems to be a bit of a Control/Alt/ Delete trick. Willie Harrison G-BZNY - now getting some serious wind in its feathers again... From topglock@cox.net Thu Jun 12 09:19:20 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fix for common Garmin GPS problem Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:19:20 From: Jeff B Willie, thanks for the information. My 396 suffered the same symptoms, on liftoff for Sun'n'fun, this year. I switched it off for half an hour, then tried it again. Worked the second time. Glad to know it has a FIX. Jeff - Baby Blue William Harrison wrote: > > My Garmin 296 had an unwelcome failure yesterday - it couldn't acquire > satellites. I was about to send it back for repair today but Garmin UK > tech support gave me a simple diagnosis and fix for what they said is a > known failure mode. Since this is likely to be experienced by other > users I thought I'd pass on the details. I expect this also applies to > 495 and 496 units, possibly also the 196 (I never saw it on my 295, > however). > > Typically, they said, the unit doesnt acquire satellites on the second > flight after long period of non-use (anything over 6 weeks) . Diagnosis > was that unit hadnt and wasnt able to rebuild its almanac table - > presumably it had been struggling with an incomplete/corrupted table > during the first flight and then went on strike the next time it was > powered up. Said to be a known problem. The fix is: > > Switch off > > Press and hold down zoom out button > > Switch on > > Wait until I agree dialog window comes up and press enter in > the usual way > > Then release the zoom out button (the above process wipes the > almanac table so the unit can restart from scratch) > > Unit goes into autolocate mode leave it powered up in the same > location for half an hour with a clear view of the sky to rebuild its > almanac table (even if it locates and displays the map much sooner). > > That's it. It worked for me. Seems to be a bit of a Control/Alt/Delete > trick. > > Willie Harrison > > G-BZNY - now getting some serious wind in its feathers again... > > > > > * > > > * > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Checked by AVG. From raimo.toivio@rwm.fi Thu Jun 12 22:09:57 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monowheel Tailwheel fairing Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:09:57 From: Raimo Toivio Paul - you remember correct. Maybe that is because we belong to the same club: EEC (Europa Electrocute Club). BTW my name is Raimo not Ramio... Tim - after one single take-off from gravel I lost plenty of tail wheel painting. That is because a prop is a powerful sandduster. I have a dark painted fairing so it was immediately ugly looking. The fairing is also very weak - so after many gravel take-offs I assume whole fairing will broke. I covered its front surface by 3M 08210 film anti-abrasion = car body adhesive tape. It is designed to protect cars surface against little stones & sand hit in critical places. It is transparent - so almost invisible and so my fairings colour is still "black cherry". If you have white (like all "good" builders have) fairing, it is even more important to protect because you cannot see those hits so easily. The film cover is very strong but when it starts to broke, it is easy to see and tape it again. I use same material in the sides of the undercarriage to prevent rubbing when trailering. Also I taped those areas where the doorss shooting bolts will hit if forget them into locking position when closing the doors. Almost all Europas have lost the painting in those areas (except my Europa ;) ). Raimo OH-XRT, voluntary grounded so far (fucken lightning strike tried to beat me but did not succeeded ================================================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul McAllister" Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 3:58 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monowheel Tailwheel fairing > > Hi Tim, > > I think Ramio was experimenting with some tail wheel fairing > protection. He might be worth a try. > > Regards, Paul > > > > > From raimo.toivio@rwm.fi Thu Jun 12 23:14:59 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:14:59 From: Raimo Toivio Thanks David for participation. > less than a kg. What do you think? I think those are almost useless, sorry. I point that is my opinion only. In the other hand maybe delusion influence will help. Or psychologikal. When you get a little hits those traps may save your radios etc. If you get a full strike it is like a bomb and your world will explode. Some conduits will not help then. Only help is to stop flying totally - you can be sure then you wont meet thunder king any more in the plane. 2nd best way is to avoid CBs 3rd best way is to fly by metal plane. I know one Lancair-builder who wrapped his wonderful composite missile to the copper net. He laminated copper net over all the outside surfaces. The calculated weight penalty with extra epox was about 75 kgs /170 lbs So he made some kind of faraday cage over his plastic plane - maybe that helps in some cases. I estimate a laminated copper cage for Europa will be about 45 kgs /100 lbs. Some people trust also for "static whics" to protect the plane. I do not know. Some people are hunging rubber strings from their cars to prevent travel sickness. Some people put an axe under their bed to get boys (I have not and got "only" girls). Today I believe there was a high tension between those two thunder centres. I flied between them. Sudden heavy rain released it. We got our electric shocks during the same seconds the rain started. It was immediately zero visibility fore - few seconds before the visibility was 20 km or so. Luckily it was a horisontal strike and so small, that I can be here and laugh. Lets call it "Sweet St. Elmos fire" or what so ever. I have checked carefully my plane and results are as follows: - broken trim position indicator (led modell). - broken stbd side pip-pin adhesive cover (almost free). - black pip-pin head (do not trust it any more). I my hand there are already a new indicator and a pip-pin from one great fellow builder. OH-XRT will fly soon - but far away from CB`s (you can be sure about that and we all should avoid them, please). Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Joyce" Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 12:08 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). > > Raimo, Congratulations on your cool response (only 150bpm!) and survival! > I hate lightning. Always find myself thinking about the UK glider whose > wing actually blew apart. In thinking how to prepare my plane for a trip to > Australia (where close encounters with lightning are almost inevitable) I > came across the attached in a 2001 CAA paper on lightning protection, (the > earlier pages were all about tin aircraft), which says: > 4 Gliders. Attention should be given to these aircraft, especially > those of non metallic structure, and bonding straps should be installed > between the extremities to conduct any strike away from the flying controls. > A point to remember is that bonding should run as straight as possible > avoiding loops formed by excess lengths at, for example, transport joints, > since a lightning strike will jump across any sharp loops or bends. > Before I head off to Asia, I plan to put aluminium mesh right along > the aileron and flap close outs joining to the rear lift pin to allow wing > tip to wing tip lightning travel, and probably also a similar strap from the > engine frame along the tunnel to the tail wheel spring. Would weigh probably > less than a kg. What do you think? > Regards David Joyce, G-XSDJ, Mono XS > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raimo Toivio" > To: > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:31 PM > Subject: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby > Fly-inn Sweden > > > > > > From raimo.toivio@rwm.fi Thu Jun 12 23:34:49 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:34:49 From: Raimo Toivio Thanks Bob and all, before "I get back on that horse and ride again" I have some guestions for you: 1) I can fly w/o trim position indicator, can I? Before take-off I trim it middle and rest is just like flying w Cessnas mechanical trim. Neutral during take-off and then after how you feel good. 2) With full power my trim travel time is exactly 22 seconds. Please confirm thats ok and normal! 3) I have an Europa original square type 1A CB for trim. Is it possible it was open but button itself was still in? I am asking this because I did not have trim ability and CB button was same time in the IN position. After in the hangar suddenly the trim motor waked upp and started to operate. Any other explanations? 4) Is there in the trim motor /servo some kind of inbuilt thermal switch? If yes - that would be a good explanation for question 3. I have asked this from RAC but did not got any answer so far. If I shall end upp to change also servo that will be a little nightmare. That is because I have fixed it with nylocnuts and bolts and there is no inspection hatch for those nuts. I wanted to save 15 minutes and elected not to instal fixed wing nuts (4 pcs). The price will be in that case some lamination and painting practise. Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Borger" Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 3:34 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). Raimo, Thank goodness you and your passenger were not harmed. Two folks have now shown that it is possible to survive a lightning strike in the Europa. Gents, that's enough. No further need for continued demonstrations! I appreciate your candor in the description of the event. We all need to learn ---From our collective experiences. Now take a brief rest with the family while you investigate and repair the damage. Then you'll be ready to get back on that horse and ride again. Check six, Bob Borger On Sunday, June 08, 2008, at 05:28PM, "Raimo Toivio" wrote: > >Hi all > >My sad responsibility is to report also my incident as follows: > >I was flying back from Barkaby to Finland Tampere (EFTP) via Ume (ESNU). >Two legs, 3 hrs and 1 hrs 20 minutes. >Half an hour from EFTP I met two thunder storm centres. I elected to fly between them. >Seemed for me to be just a normal practise. QNH altitude 4000 feet, airspeed 130 knots, >ground speed 150 knots, air temp 22C, plane was well trimmed and loaded near MTOW >658 kg /1450 lbs.Almost overcast (5/8) about 6000 feet. We saw quite strong lightnings >both sides. > >Suddenly I got a STRONG electric shock like static or similar to my right hand ---From the power lever. >My friend got a similar shock to his ears through head sets. >Very heavy raining started immediately. >Radio started awful whistling and whining. > >What the hell was happening we asked each others. >Plane was still flying well. >We saw no damages on the wing surfaces etc. >Radio stopped whistling after five minutes or so. >I was checking all the equipments I could. > >During that inspection I noticed I have no trim position display any more (I have those green MAC leds). >I tried to trim but nothing happened. >CB (Europa suplied) was in position. >I tried via change over swith my another lower speed trim adjusting switch but nothing happened. >Just for in case I opened trim CB to avoid possibility of the trim auto-run case. > >I have to mention we had with Jos a discussion of that case and he stated that if it goes to the other side, >it is impossible to keep pitch control any more. And that discussion was this morning! > >So, I was flying over EFTP. Altitude 3000 feet. There was a whole circus like several fire trucks, police and >ambulances. Carefully I slowed the speed to 80 knots to test what happens during flaps/gear lowering. >You remember I had lost my electric trim and it was trimmed for 130 knots. > >During my normal abroach speed 70 knots I can tell you the nose was VERY heavy but still controlable. >Just in case my strong friend helped me by pulling his stick also. >I keeped that speed until touching the runway and it was one of my best monowheel landing ever >(like Jos reported today in his other case EFHF). > >ATC men, fire men and all the others congratulated me. We were alive and OH-XRT was still in one piece. > >I taxied to the hangar and after half an hour trim motor started to work by itself. >Still there was no its position lights. Trim CB was working normally. > >We fast checked the plane and obviously the lightning has gone trough stbd-side stabilator pip-pin to the structure. The pip-pin cover (transparent sticker) was explosed and the head of the pip-pin was black. > >That was it. I drove home, kissed my daughters and wife and opened a bottle of bier. > >BTW - when we were over EFTP, my friend measured my pulse rate and it was 150. > >That was an interesting experience. Some of you know that I made last summer a serioush but super lucky >forced landing in Lappland because my Cessnas mechanical trim was working uppsidedown. >That was because a service error of certified service company Arctic Airservice. > >Trim controls are my nightmares and devils lurking to make me a bad day. > >I grounded my Europa of course. I am not sure what to do now. >If I later decide to continue flying, I have to fix it first and and check it carefully. >I called Jos (thank you) and he advised me to check everything. > >Have you there any ideas for me, please? > >Raimo >OH-XRT, 64 hrs, grounded so far From air.guerner@wanadoo.fr Fri Jun 13 11:54:58 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:54:58 From: Remi Guerner I want to add my own experience to the lightning strike discussion. A few years ago while I was flying my Europa in the east of France, there were a few thunderstorms in the vicinity, the closest one was at least ten miles away, good visibility and no rain. Suddenly I saw my passenger removing his headset in a hurry and at the same time I felt electrical discharges in my left hand fingers through the foam of the stick. This lasted for a few seconds. My passenger told me he had received discharges on his ears through the headset. There were no visible lightning bolt nor audible thunder. Everything on the aircraft continued to work properly and the rest of the flight was uneventful. No damage was found on the aircraft after landing. Since that day I try to fly far away from thunderstorms. Remi Guerner F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 575 hours From sldpileit@aol.com Fri Jun 13 11:03:29 2008 Subject: Europa-List: stall warning problem Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:03:29 From: sldpileit@aol.com I've got a stall warning system installed in my europa "N108EA" and I cannot get it adjusted. The darn thing is either on or off. I can't fine tune it to 5 to 7kt's above stall. This is the stall warning system sold at Europa LTD. Has anyone had any trouble with their's. I'm hoping that there is a quick fix out there. Maybe something simple that I may be missing ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Scott and Corky Dingman "N108EA" From josoke@ukolo.fi Fri Jun 13 19:54:11 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: stall warning problem Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:54:11 From: josok There is a suction and a pressure opening on the swith. Try to suck the wing opening. If the stall horn does not sound, blow on it. :-) It's a pity you started adjusting, mine was spot on out of the box. Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org From david.corbett5@btinternet.com Fri Jun 13 18:24:17 2008 Subject: Europa-List: FW: For Andy Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:24:17 From: David Corbett Hello, Raimo and everyone, Following Raimo's report about his lightning strike, I forwarded his e-mail to Andy Draper who now works in the engineering department of the UK Light Aircraft Association (which was the PFA until 1 January 2008). Here is Andy's reply: Sent: 13 June 2008 11:00 Dear David, Thank you for bringing my attention to Raimo's report. I'm pleased to learn that he, his passenger and aircraft landed safely. We did prove that the Europa can be fully controlled with the trim at either extreme of travel and the CG at either limit so Jos's statement that the Europa would become uncontrollable in pitch is incorrect. The only other lightening strike in a Europa that I know about was to Paul McAllister in the USA. It may be out of date, but the e-mail address that I have for him is paul.mcallister@qia.net. Paul may have some useful pointers as to what he found the airframe may have suffered. I'm afriad that I have no experience in lightening strike damage. One comment that I would make is that pilot's should be aware that lighening can strike well away from the centres of CBs. The overhanging cloud should also be considered a no fly area. The other place to seek advice from would be the BGA who are bound to have experience in examining lightening damage to composite gliders. Regards Andy From VE3LVO@rac.ca Fri Jun 13 14:29:27 2008 Subject: Europa-List: CBs & lightning Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:29:27 From: Fergus Kyle FWIW: Many years ago, a wise old owl (now with the angels) said he had many lightning strikes while delivering heavies over the Indian and Pacific oceans, some of which caused mayhem and some of which were nominal. In EVERY case he was within 25 miles of a thunderstorm - CB . He eventually clicked and refused vehemently (Air Traffic instructions or no) to come within 25 miles (on the radar by then) - and never had another. His limit (and then mine) is 25 miles clear of a thunderstorm below freezing level and 40 miles above that because of jet wind dispersal of hail from anvil tops. I spent many an hour guessing at distances when I had airborne radar to play with since I knew one day I'd go without. We don't need to fuss too much here over in winter as CBs don't convene and FZ of 18k is mostly above our need - but summertime my minimum goes to 25 miles no matter what the challenge. JMF - just my feelings. Ferg A064 From josoke@ukolo.fi Fri Jun 13 22:49:39 2008 Subject: Europa-List: FW: For Andy Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:49:39 From: josok Words change while being transferred, i have never stated "would become uncontrollable in pitch" What i told Raimo was that the force needed near one of the extremities is beyond what i can produce from a given point to a safe landing. I would appreciate the opinion of others who have run a full test program. They are all different, is it my plane only? Regards Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org From rowil@clara.net Fri Jun 13 20:50:09 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: stall warning problem Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:50:09 From: Rowland Carson >I've got a stall warning system installed in my europa "N108EA" and >I cannot get it adjusted Scott & Corky - did you get the correct template for your wing with your Mod 61 kit? The positon of the stall warner hole (and thus the shape of the template for locating it) differ depending on the circumstances. I'm not sure if Classic (foam wing) and XS are different, but I think that installation at build is different from installation after wing completion. I am building a XS wing, and had ordered the stall-warner kit for incorporation before wing close. The template that came with it was marked BL52.5 and clearly wouldn't fit properly unless positioned much further inboard. It should have been BL102. Roger at the factory agreed that the wrong template was then being supplied in the XS pre-close kits and sent me the correct one. I imagine that if the hole in the LE is not correctly positioned it could make it impossible to get the sounder adjusted. If it is not close enough to the stagnation point then the pressure will not change in the expected way. Of course, I'm just theorising as I haven't yet build a fuselage to hang my wing on ... Another question that occurs is - is the stall-warner tube completely free of leaks and obstructions all the way to the sensor? Disconnect the sensor and check that you can blow through it - and that if your lovely assistant blocks the far end that you can feel the resistance to your blowing. regards Rowland -- | Wilma & Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/ | ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... From grahamsingleton@btinternet.com Sat Jun 14 00:18:53 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Bob Gowing & Gerry Cole Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 00:18:53 From: Graham Singleton Bob A little help and guidance in the early stages is probably going to be more useful than help retrieving a bad situation later on. When I agree to do the inspection of a project I like to do the first lay ups with the builder, it's easy to show by example, harder to explain what isn't quite perfect. Graham JR Gowing wrote: > > Jos > > I am beginning to put your delegation suggestion into action. > Thank you for putting your speed-up method into words. > > JR (Bob) Gowing > (DOB 15/11/1930) > UK Kit 327 (1996) with XS mods, in Oz From nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk Sun Jun 15 16:39:28 2008 Subject: Europa-List: DOTH - UK pilots only Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 16:39:28 From: nigel charles Anyone for a DOTH on Tuesday? Nigel Charles From jdmilbank@hotmail.com Sun Jun 15 11:43:28 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Europa Classic port radiator Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 11:43:28 From: Jonathan Milbank Anyone got a port radiator to sell me please? Mine sprung a small leak after 11 years. Conversely does anyone know a sure-fire method to stop the leak or repair the radiator, which won't damage the aluminum or compromise cooling and safety? I normally use 50/50 glycol and water. My email is jdmilbank@hotmail.com and my 'phone is -44-651-806471. You might hear my partner Sheila Gray's voice on the answer'phone. Thanks. Jonathan Milbank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=187991#187991 From christoph.both@acadiau.ca Sun Jun 15 17:06:25 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Classic port radiator Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:06:25 From: Christoph Both Hi, I got mine TIG spot welded by a local professional. Cost me $10.00. You say you have an 11 year old. I do have a used PORT rad here (CLASSIC), one of the first hand welded ones. It looks fine, 2 cooling ducts might need a tiny TIG weldment but after that it might be fine. Drop me a not if you are interested - shipping is not very expensive ---From Canada. Christoph Both #223 and still building (12 years) -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Milbank Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: Europa-List: Europa Classic port radiator --> Anyone got a port radiator to sell me please? Mine sprung a small leak after 11 years. Conversely does anyone know a sure-fire method to stop the leak or repair the radiator, which won't damage the aluminum or compromise cooling and safety? I normally use 50/50 glycol and water. My email is jdmilbank@hotmail.com and my 'phone is -44-651-806471. You might hear my partner Sheila Gray's voice on the answer'phone. Thanks. Jonathan Milbank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=187991#187991 From jdmilbank@hotmail.com Sun Jun 15 13:34:21 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa Classic port radiator Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 13:34:21 From: Jonathan Milbank Thanks Christoph, I'm interested, particularly if yours doesn't leak. Does it have attached brackets for supporting the oil cooler radiator which mounts behind it? I don't know whether mine was hand welded; it came with the firewall forward kit around 1996 and I'm not aware of the possibility of different methods of manufacture. How could anybody find the leak spot in amongst all those delicate closely folded cooling fins, let alone get at the leak with welding apparatus? How much would you be wanting for yours? Regards. Jonathan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=187999#187999 From jdmilbank@hotmail.com Sun Jun 15 16:45:20 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Re: stall warning problem Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 16:45:20 From: Jonathan Milbank I agree with Jos in that I've had that happen to me twice after connecting the pressure tube to the wrong spigot on the transducer; easily done. Regards. Jonathan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188020#188020 From rick@amimotormanagement.co.uk Mon Jun 16 09:48:46 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH - UK pilots only Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:48:46 From: rick I'd love to but got to work. Thanks for a great day again. Your field is coming along beautifully. Yours friends and neighbours seemed to enjoy it all to. See you soon Best Wishes Rick PS I think we must get Gerry and Paddy sectioned!. _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nigel charles Sent: 15 June 2008 16:39 Subject: Europa-List: DOTH - UK pilots only Anyone for a DOTH on Tuesday? Nigel Charles "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Europa-List "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. 18:02 From Trevpond@aol.com Mon Jun 16 05:01:21 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH - UK pilots only Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 05:01:21 From: Trevpond@aol.com Hi Paddy, Are you going somewhere? Trev Pond G-LINN From nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk Mon Jun 16 16:10:27 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH - UK pilots only Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:10:27 From: nigel charles Hi Rick Thanks for your support. Hope you got back OK and your ignition system problems are solved. When I circulated the following emails I only had your old email address so they didn't get through so here they are again. Regards Nigel ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------- I would like to thank all of you for participating in the Lydeway BBQ/Fly-In. You made a lot of people very happy. Everyone who wanted to get a flight this year got airborne. It was particularly helpful that there were two 4 seaters as there were a few youngsters who needed the reassurance of their parent to go flying. The ratio of aircraft to local guests was easier this year. We had 15 aircraft which is the highest ever and I think it proved to be a sensible maximum for future years. You all operated very professionally, helping to keep this a safe and enjoyable event. Whilst I can help to coordinate movements on the ground and arrange relative priorites for ground and airborne traffic, the ultimate safety in the air is down to you guys and I thank you for a good job well done. The event raised =A3150 for the MS charity and it was particulary nice to see that two pilots were able to take an MS guest airborne. The sense of freedom this gave when otherwise stuck in a wheelchair was much appreciated. It was also good to have the police helicopter visit. After several years of offering, this was the first time they were able to find a gap in their busy schedule. Sadly as the ambulance funding from the NHS is now in doubt it may be the last time we see them at the event. The parking layout was not quite optimised for so many aircraft. This was the first year that we had enough space to create a 'ramp' area. It is a matter of chance as to the length of the field grass at the time of the event. In retrospect we should have widened it to make it easier to taxy in an out. As it was most of you managed to arrange your positioning to optimise ground movements. I will take this on board for next year's event. If anyone has any suggestions as to how to improve things, particularly from the aviator's perspective, please let me know. Unless anyone tells me other wise I will keep you all on my email list for when it comes time to publicise next year's fly-in. Thanks again. Enjoy your flying. Regards Nigel Charles ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------- I have been asked to include a short article about the Lydeway BBQ/Fly-In for the Europa Club magazine. Do any of you have any digital photos of the event that they could let me have a copy of? Regards Nigel ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ From nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk Mon Jun 16 16:24:25 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH - UK pilots only Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:24:25 From: nigel charles For anyone thinking of joining us, Cathy and I are intending to fly to Sturgate tomorrow (Tuesday). In case of changes of plan we will be contactable on 01380 860620 or 0776 4579 860 until 10am. So far just Pete and Sue Jeffers have shown interest. Paddy might come but he is having some difficulty getting unleaded fuel for his aircraft due to the tanker drivers strike. Regards Nigel Charles -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Trevpond@aol.com Sent: 16 June 2008 10:01 Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH - UK pilots only Hi Paddy, Are you going somewhere? Trev Pond G-LINN From Trevpond@aol.com Mon Jun 16 13:38:09 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH - UK pilots only Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 13:38:09 From: Trevpond@aol.com Hi Nigel, I'm in for it! regards Trev Pond G-LINN From nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk Mon Jun 16 18:46:12 2008 Subject: Europa-List: DOTH tomorrow Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:46:12 From: nigel charles Change of plan. I am told there is no restaurant at Sturgate and I haven't researched whether there is a pub nearby. Also some pilots in the south are having problems getting fuel. Also the weather is looking a bit better in the south so we are now looking at Sandown. Although the restaurant has burnt down we have potential transport for a few people as Pete Jeffers has a car there. If too many want to attend we can change the destination at last minute to Bembridge where there is food. Anyone interested please contact me so we have an idea of numbers. Regards Nigel From bryanallsop@hotmail.com Mon Jun 16 14:34:48 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH tomorrow Sturgate Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:34:48 From: Bryan Allsop There was a restaurant there last time I went. Bryan From: nwcmc@tiscali.co.ukTo: europa-list@matronics.comSubject: Europa-List: DOTH tomorrowDate: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:46:12 +0100 Change of plan. I am told there is no restaurant at Sturgate and I haven't researched whether there is a pub nearby. Also some pilots in the south are having problems getting fuel. Also the weather is looking a bit better in the south so we are now looking at Sandown. Although the restaurant has bur nt down we have potential transport for a few people as Pete Jeffers has a car there. If too many want to attend we can change the destination at last minute to Bembridge where there is food. Anyone interested please contact me so we have an idea of numbers. Regards Nigel _________________________________________________________________ Search that pays you back! Introducing Live Search cashback. http://search.live.com/cashback/?&pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=s rchpaysyouback From bryanallsop@hotmail.com Mon Jun 16 14:49:21 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH tomorrow Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:49:21 From: Bryan Allsop I have checked ,and you are probably correct about Sturgate now. I really would like to Drop my Hat tomorrow, but Sandown on the Isle of Wig ht could be too much of a reach for me. Isn't there anywhere more central? Best regards. Bryan From: nwcmc@tiscali.co.ukTo: europa-list@matronics.comSubject: Europa-List: DOTH tomorrowDate: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:46:12 +0100 Change of plan. I am told there is no restaurant at Sturgate and I haven't researched whether there is a pub nearby. Also some pilots in the south are having problems getting fuel. Also the weather is looking a bit better in the south so we are now looking at Sandown. Although the restaurant has bur nt down we have potential transport for a few people as Pete Jeffers has a car there. If too many want to attend we can change the destination at last minute to Bembridge where there is food. Anyone interested please contact me so we have an idea of numbers. Regards Nigel _________________________________________________________________ Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you on Wi ndows Live=99 Messenger. Add now. https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_AddNow_Now From nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk Mon Jun 16 20:15:59 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH tomorrow Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:15:59 From: nigel charles Sorry Bryan we have already decided to go for Sandown. Pete knows a good restaurant there and has transport from the field. Changing it at this stage is getting too complicated. Had I known earlier that you were in the frame we could have chosen something more central. Perhaps we will catch up with you on a later DOTH. Your choice next time. Regards Nigel -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Allsop Sent: 16 June 2008 19:49 Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH tomorrow I have checked ,and you are probably correct about Sturgate now. I really would like to Drop my Hat tomorrow, but Sandown on the Isle of Wight could be too much of a reach for me. Isn't there anywhere more central? Best regards. Bryan _____ From: nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk Subject: Europa-List: DOTH tomorrow Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:46:12 +0100 Change of plan. I am told there is no restaurant at Sturgate and I haven't researched whether there is a pub nearby. Also some pilots in the south are having problems getting fuel. Also the weather is looking a bit better in the south so we are now looking at Sandown. Although the restaurant has burnt down we have potential transport for a few people as Pete Jeffers has a car there. If too many want to attend we can change the destination at last minute to Bembridge where there is food. Anyone interested please contact me so we have an idea of numbers. Regards Nigel arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution _____ Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you on Windows LiveT Messenger. Add them now! From josoke@ukolo.fi Mon Jun 16 22:21:14 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH tomorrow Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:21:14 From: josok There was food available at Sandown, last time i visited, from kind of a trailer behind the fire damaged restaurant the last time i visited there :-) Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org From raimo.toivio@rwm.fi Mon Jun 16 23:15:10 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: FW: For Andy Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:15:10 From: Raimo Toivio "force needed near one of the extremities is beyond what i can produce" sounds in my ears like "would become uncontrollable" ;) My plane: I need almost full trim to nose down position when cruising in or near max cruising speed. During take offs and landings I trim to "neutral" postion. That means I never use trim between neutral and max nose upp position. My neutral is a real neutral ie. trim tabs and stabilators are levelled then. Would like to know what happens if I trim max nose upp during 70 kts clean or dirty? If no answers, I will test during my next flight some day. Problem: I am afraid I am strong enough to broke the controls. As well as Jos asked, opinions please! Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: "josok" Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 10:49 PM Subject: Europa-List: FW: For Andy > > Words change while being transferred, i have never stated "would become uncontrollable in pitch" What i told Raimo was that the force needed near one of the extremities is beyond what i can produce from a given point to a safe landing. I would appreciate the opinion of others who have run a full test program. They are all different, is it my plane only? > > Regards > > Jos Okhuijsen > > > > > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > > > > > > > From bryanallsop@hotmail.com Mon Jun 16 17:16:06 2008 Subject: Europa-List: DOTH to Beverley Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:16:06 From: Bryan Allsop Hi Folks, Since Sandown is a step too far for some of us who are not located down tha t way, Roger Mills and I are having our own Doth at Beverley tomorrow ( Tue sday). All welcome with a mominal arrival at mid-day. Happy flying. Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you on Wi ndows Live=99 Messenger. Add now. https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_AddNow_Now From raimo.toivio@rwm.fi Tue Jun 17 00:47:04 2008 Subject: Europa-List: First time in the history Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 00:47:04 From: Raimo Toivio All The Finnish Europas in the same hangary! Raimo From raimo.toivio@rwm.fi Tue Jun 17 00:52:32 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: CBs & lightning Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 00:52:32 From: Raimo Toivio Ferg, One friend - a Learjet pilot who I respect - said his minimum is 50 km. That is like your 25 miles. Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fergus Kyle" Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 9:29 PM Subject: Europa-List: CBs & lightning > > FWIW: > Many years ago, a wise old owl (now with the angels) said he had > many lightning strikes while delivering heavies over the Indian and Pacific > oceans, some of which caused mayhem and some of which were nominal. In EVERY > case he was within 25 miles of a thunderstorm - CB . > He eventually clicked and refused vehemently (Air Traffic > instructions or no) to come within 25 miles (on the radar by then) - and > never had another. His limit (and then mine) is 25 miles clear of a > thunderstorm below freezing level and 40 miles above that because of jet > wind dispersal of hail from anvil tops. I spent many an hour guessing at > distances when I had airborne radar to play with since I knew one day I'd go > without. We don't need to fuss too much here over in winter as CBs don't > convene and FZ of 18k is mostly above our need - but summertime my minimum > goes to 25 miles no matter what the challenge. > JMF - just my feelings. > Ferg > A064 > > > > > > From ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk Mon Jun 16 23:18:09 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: FW: For Andy Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:18:09 From: Robert C Harrison Hi! Raimo. I have some limited experience with the trim system "going out of sync..." Since it was initially thought to be a wiring problem I endured it for a while with discussions ensuing with the trim controller company. The problem appeared to be that the system would not reverse until it reached fully to the maximum limit. Initially I would hold the pitch control and be brave enough to operate the trim motor to the maximum deflection point and then it would reverse. I then really desperately tried not to trim back for it to happen again. During all these test circumstances I was most concerned for the strength of the trim system and ultimately getting caught out trying to land in the failed mode. Finally I used to let the aircraft fly with the maximum trim out location hands off.. until the control was able to reverse. The Ray Allen Company then got to do some serious reasoning about the problem and asked me to return the motor and the control unit to them. They tested out the motor and their relay deck and discovered a fault in the relay deck and replaced it free of charge. I've had no problems since. Of course by not resisting the forces the control system was not stressed however it would have been impossible to land. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio Sent: 16 June 2008 21:15 Subject: Re: Europa-List: FW: For Andy "force needed near one of the extremities is beyond what i can produce" sounds in my ears like "would become uncontrollable" ;) My plane: I need almost full trim to nose down position when cruising in or near max cruising speed. During take offs and landings I trim to "neutral" postion. That means I never use trim between neutral and max nose upp position. My neutral is a real neutral ie. trim tabs and stabilators are levelled then. Would like to know what happens if I trim max nose upp during 70 kts clean or dirty? If no answers, I will test during my next flight some day. Problem: I am afraid I am strong enough to broke the controls. As well as Jos asked, opinions please! Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: "josok" Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 10:49 PM Subject: Europa-List: FW: For Andy > > Words change while being transferred, i have never stated "would become uncontrollable in pitch" What i told Raimo was that the force needed near one of the extremities is beyond what i can produce from a given point to a safe landing. I would appreciate the opinion of others who have run a full test program. They are all different, is it my plane only? > > Regards > > Jos Okhuijsen > > > > > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > > > > > > > From topglock@cox.net Mon Jun 16 17:39:33 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List914 Overheating/boiling Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:39:33 From: Jeff B Sorry for the late reply, but here is a possible problem. I have seen, on occasion, the impeller in a water pump loosen itself from the shaft and virtually stop pumping fluid. I know it's very rare, but still a possibility to explore, should you not be able to resolve the issue by other means... Jeff - Baby Blue rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: > > Hi G-IANI > > "Even with short warm up and taxi it will boil slightly as you clime out" > > "Has anyone got any ideas that might help" > > Will the system hold 1.2 bar pressure? If pressure drops boiling temp will > go down. I had a pressure cap on my 1992 Volvo turbo Station Wagon get a > very small hairline crack perhaps a year ago and what you describe is bout > what happened to me. > > Pretty easy to check are radiator fins restricting? Has any hose or > fitting changed to cause a restriction? > > Harder to check, is radiator internal restricting? Is water pump working > properly? > > Good Luck > Ron Parigoris > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Checked by AVG. From milneab@btinternet.com Tue Jun 17 06:51:55 2008 Subject: Europa-List: First Flight Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:51:55 From: A B Milne Another Europa XS Trigear is on its way to join the UK fleet. G - CEYK flew from Oxford for the first time on Saturday last. No dramas, just the interest provided by having myself as builder on his first as a test pilot. Regards Alasdair Milne From jrgowing@bigpond.net.au Tue Jun 17 17:34:39 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 17:34:39 From: JR Gowing Alasirre What a combination! Congratulations on your daring JR (Bob) Gowing in Oz ----- Original Message ----- From: A B Milne To: Europa List Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:51 PM Subject: Europa-List: First Flight Another Europa XS Trigear is on its way to join the UK fleet. G - CEYK flew from Oxford for the first time on Saturday last. No dramas, just the interest provided by having myself as builder on his first as a test pilot. Regards Alasdair Milne =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - The Europa-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FEuropa-List =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - List Contribution Web Site - =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-=========================================================== --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Checked by AVG. 8 6:02 PM -- From willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk Tue Jun 17 09:30:13 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:30:13 From: William Harrison Congratulations, Alasdair. Willie On 17 Jun 2008, at 06:51, A B Milne wrote: > Another Europa XS Trigear is on its way to join the UK fleet. G - > CEYK flew from Oxford for the first time on Saturday last. No > dramas, just the interest provided by having myself as builder on > his first as a test pilot. > > Regards > > Alasdair Milne > > From ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk Tue Jun 17 09:44:48 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: First Flight Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:44:48 From: Robert C Harrison Hi! Alisdair. Very well done and congratulations to all connected with the successful first flight of G-CEYK. I should take this opportunity to also announce my admiration for Ivor Phillips who test flew his new Europa G-IVER for all of seven hours in one week or thereabouts, collected his Full Permit from Gatwick on the Thursday having submitted it to the LAA only on the previous Monday then on the Friday of the same week accompanied me and my brother in G-PTAG for some 30 hours on a Scandinavian Tour including Barkaby and Stauning Rally's over the Arctic Circle to Guallivare (ESNG) through snow showers and lots more that Mother Nature can dream up ! There's nothing like confidence in ones own creation.. very well done Ivor. After this trip I am the first to say that when we did our previous .. Bob's Trip "Over and Closing the Circle" Scandinavian Tour 2003 (Google .co.uk) WE KNEW NOT WHAT WE DID ! Of course many thanks to the LAA and the Permit Application Department of the CAA for pulling out all the paperwork stops which allowed this tour to be also a success. Regards To all Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A B Milne Sent: 17 June 2008 06:52 Subject: Europa-List: First Flight Another Europa XS Trigear is on its way to join the UK fleet. G - CEYK flew from Oxford for the first time on Saturday last. No dramas, just the interest provided by having myself as builder on his first as a test pilot. Regards Alasdair Milne From Trevpond@aol.com Tue Jun 17 04:47:05 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH tomorrow Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 04:47:05 From: Trevpond@aol.com Sorry Nigel, can't do that one - see you next time. regards Trev Pond G-LINN From peterandbettyharrod@btopenworld.com Tue Jun 17 09:58:15 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:58:15 From: PETER HARROD Congratulations Alasdair, the odd wings thankfully did not cause you any dramas . My build rate is slower than yours and I look forward to my odd wings performing equally well. ( for other Europaphiles info. the aforementioned odd wings refer to a kit delivery containing either 2 port or 2 starboard items and we had to organise a swap) Happy landings , Regards, Peter Harrod ----- Original Message ----- From: A B Milne To: Europa List Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 6:51 AM Subject: Europa-List: First Flight Another Europa XS Trigear is on its way to join the UK fleet. G - CEYK flew from Oxford for the first time on Saturday last. No dramas, just the interest provided by having myself as builder on his first as a test pilot. Regards Alasdair Milne ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 16/06/2008 07:20 From ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com Tue Jun 17 10:00:35 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: First Flight Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:00:35 From: Ivor Phillips Well done Alasdair, Its very gratifying being the test pilot on your own build, Its just a shame that so much paper work gets in the way of having loads of fun, Congratulations Ivor Phillips G-IVER -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A B Milne Sent: 17 June 2008 06:52 Subject: Europa-List: First Flight Another Europa XS Trigear is on its way to join the UK fleet. G - CEYK flew from Oxford for the first time on Saturday last. No dramas, just the interest provided by having myself as builder on his first as a test pilot. Regards Alasdair Milne From davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Tue Jun 17 10:31:12 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:31:12 From: David Joyce Alasdair, Many congratulations. You may well have put up a first or at least become one of a select few in now owning two Europas. Which do you prefer? Regards, David joyce, G-XSDJ From davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Tue Jun 17 10:41:45 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:41:45 From: David Joyce Raimo, The material I have in mind is aluminium mesh of the sort that could be used as radiator grills in home built cars. A 5cm strip of this could be fitted right down the close outs to the rear lift pins and across the strengthening bar. It would not weigh a lot, but would have conducting capacity much in excess of Nav light wires (which seem to have served as lightning conductors for a number of victims), and most importantly would encourage the course of the strike to be outside structures that matter in flight - at least that's the way I see it and it appears to be what the UK CAA experts have said is desirable for gliders. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raimo Toivio" Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 9:14 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). Thanks David for participation. > less than a kg. What do you think? I think those are almost useless, sorry. I point that is my opinion only. In the other hand maybe delusion influence will help. Or psychologikal. When you get a little hits those traps may save your radios etc. If you get a full strike it is like a bomb and your world will explode. Some conduits will not help then. Only help is to stop flying totally - you can be sure then you wont meet thunder king any more in the plane. 2nd best way is to avoid CBs 3rd best way is to fly by metal plane. I know one Lancair-builder who wrapped his wonderful composite missile to the copper net. He laminated copper net over all the outside surfaces. The calculated weight penalty with extra epox was about 75 kgs /170 lbs So he made some kind of faraday cage over his plastic plane - maybe that helps in some cases. I estimate a laminated copper cage for Europa will be about 45 kgs /100 lbs. Some people trust also for "static whics" to protect the plane. I do not know. Some people are hunging rubber strings from their cars to prevent travel sickness. Some people put an axe under their bed to get boys (I have not and got "only" girls). Today I believe there was a high tension between those two thunder centres. I flied between them. Sudden heavy rain released it. We got our electric shocks during the same seconds the rain started. It was immediately zero visibility fore - few seconds before the visibility was 20 km or so. Luckily it was a horisontal strike and so small, that I can be here and laugh. Lets call it "Sweet St. Elmos fire" or what so ever. I have checked carefully my plane and results are as follows: - broken trim position indicator (led modell). - broken stbd side pip-pin adhesive cover (almost free). - black pip-pin head (do not trust it any more). I my hand there are already a new indicator and a pip-pin from one great fellow builder. OH-XRT will fly soon - but far away from CB`s (you can be sure about that and we all should avoid them, please). Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Joyce" Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 12:08 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). > > > Raimo, Congratulations on your cool response (only 150bpm!) and survival! > I hate lightning. Always find myself thinking about the UK glider > whose > wing actually blew apart. In thinking how to prepare my plane for a trip > to > Australia (where close encounters with lightning are almost inevitable) I > came across the attached in a 2001 CAA paper on lightning protection, (the > earlier pages were all about tin aircraft), which says: > 4 Gliders. Attention should be given to these aircraft, especially > those of non metallic structure, and bonding straps should be installed > between the extremities to conduct any strike away from the flying > controls. > A point to remember is that bonding should run as straight as possible > avoiding loops formed by excess lengths at, for example, transport joints, > since a lightning strike will jump across any sharp loops or bends. > Before I head off to Asia, I plan to put aluminium mesh right along > the aileron and flap close outs joining to the rear lift pin to allow wing > tip to wing tip lightning travel, and probably also a similar strap from > the > engine frame along the tunnel to the tail wheel spring. Would weigh > probably > less than a kg. What do you think? > Regards David Joyce, G-XSDJ, Mono XS > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raimo Toivio" > To: > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:31 PM > Subject: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around > Barkaby > Fly-inn Sweden > > From craigb@onthenet.com.au Tue Jun 17 22:03:15 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: CBs & lightning Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 22:03:15 From: craig bastin Depends on if its statute miles or Nautical miles 25 statute miles is roughly 40km 25 Nautical miles is roughly 45km all the australian charts are in nautical miles so i normally run in them and Knots for air speed, on the ground its all metric same as you Raimo -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2008 7:53 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: CBs & lightning Ferg, One friend - a Learjet pilot who I respect - said his minimum is 50 km. That is like your 25 miles. Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fergus Kyle" Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 9:29 PM Subject: Europa-List: CBs & lightning > > FWIW: > Many years ago, a wise old owl (now with the angels) said he had > many lightning strikes while delivering heavies over the Indian and Pacific > oceans, some of which caused mayhem and some of which were nominal. In EVERY > case he was within 25 miles of a thunderstorm - CB . > He eventually clicked and refused vehemently (Air Traffic > instructions or no) to come within 25 miles (on the radar by then) - and > never had another. His limit (and then mine) is 25 miles clear of a > thunderstorm below freezing level and 40 miles above that because of jet > wind dispersal of hail from anvil tops. I spent many an hour guessing at > distances when I had airborne radar to play with since I knew one day I'd go > without. We don't need to fuss too much here over in winter as CBs don't > convene and FZ of 18k is mostly above our need - but summertime my minimum > goes to 25 miles no matter what the challenge. > JMF - just my feelings. > Ferg > A064 > > Checked by AVG. 7:20 AM Checked by AVG. 7:20 AM From pete@lawless.info Tue Jun 17 18:29:26 2008 Subject: Europa-List: CBs & lightning recommended reading. Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:29:26 From: Pete Lawless Gentlemen Given the lively discussion re thunderstorms & lightning may I recommend a bit of light reading. A little book called 'Severe Weather Flying' by 'Dennis Newton'. It is quite old published in the early '90s but is still available at my local flying club shop. I promise you won't fly near storms once you have read it. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig bastin Sent: 17 June 2008 13:03 Subject: RE: Europa-List: CBs & lightning Depends on if its statute miles or Nautical miles 25 statute miles is roughly 40km 25 Nautical miles is roughly 45km all the australian charts are in nautical miles so i normally run in them and Knots for air speed, on the ground its all metric same as you Raimo -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2008 7:53 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: CBs & lightning Ferg, One friend - a Learjet pilot who I respect - said his minimum is 50 km. That is like your 25 miles. Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fergus Kyle" Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 9:29 PM Subject: Europa-List: CBs & lightning > > FWIW: > Many years ago, a wise old owl (now with the angels) said he had > many lightning strikes while delivering heavies over the Indian and Pacific > oceans, some of which caused mayhem and some of which were nominal. In EVERY > case he was within 25 miles of a thunderstorm - CB . > He eventually clicked and refused vehemently (Air Traffic > instructions or no) to come within 25 miles (on the radar by then) - and > never had another. His limit (and then mine) is 25 miles clear of a > thunderstorm below freezing level and 40 miles above that because of jet > wind dispersal of hail from anvil tops. I spent many an hour guessing at > distances when I had airborne radar to play with since I knew one day I'd go > without. We don't need to fuss too much here over in winter as CBs don't > convene and FZ of 18k is mostly above our need - but summertime my minimum > goes to 25 miles no matter what the challenge. > JMF - just my feelings. > Ferg > A064 > > Checked by AVG. 7:20 AM Checked by AVG. 7:20 AM -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, and is believed to be clean. From VE3LVO@rac.ca Tue Jun 17 14:14:27 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Trims Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:14:27 From: Fergus Kyle Just a cautionary note: Some newer aviators occasionally make the approach with the aircraft pitch-trimmed for round-out on landing. That makes it easier for leisurely arrivals. However, some aircraft (not the Europa apparently) are very difficult to control in pitch if a baulked landing is called for - as in somebody enters the runway ahead of you and go-around is necessary. When the pitch trim motor is slow, the move to full overshoot power produces an unexpected nose-up surge. While the Europa seems to provide sufficient leverage to overcome this mis-trim, it takes swift reaction not to be overwhelmed (the action is as quick as the throttle moves). Many a surprised Lysander driver has looped on go-around - stings a bit. I'll be trimming for go-around and compensating during round-out. Besides, slight out-of-trim produces a more sensitive feel on the stick and thus supports increased accuracy. Cheers, Ferg PS: Corollary: Where should the trim be during engine failure on takeoff? From karelvranken@hotmail.com Tue Jun 17 22:33:57 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 22:33:57 From: karelvranken Congratulations Alasdair. Wich one do you take to Roumania? Karel Vranken. F-PKRL ----- Original Message ----- From: A B Milne To: Europa List Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 7:51 AM Subject: Europa-List: First Flight Another Europa XS Trigear is on its way to join the UK fleet. G - CEYK flew from Oxford for the first time on Saturday last. No dramas, just the interest provided by having myself as builder on his first as a test pilot. Regards Alasdair Milne From sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no Wed Jun 18 14:41:28 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Fuel tank dimensions Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:41:28 From: Sidsel & Svein Johnsen I am considering a new tank - I don't like the prospect of a crack when flying over Norwegian terrain - - - - - . Will in case make it higher than the original to compensate for less width (so as to get it into the fuselage after cutting open the cockpit module top) and in order to get more long range fuel capacity. Before I remove the existing tank, I wish to evaluate tank material, dimensions and design details as far as possible, and only make small adjustments after taking actual measurement of the available space. I have received a sketch with dimensions from EA2004, but they cannot confirm that it is an as-built drawing. The problem is that the volume calculated on the basis of this sketch is about 20% larger than what our tanks actually contain. If anyone has a tank not yet installed, I would appreciate very much to receive the dimensions A to E as marked on the attached sketch - in millimeters or inches. Note: Measurement E should be taken close to the centerline, not in way of the recesses for the aileron quick-connects at the sides. I have blacked out the dimensions received ---From Europa, in order not to mislead anyone. Best regards, Svein LN-SKJ From paddyclarke@lineone.net Wed Jun 18 16:47:27 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:47:27 From: Paddy Clarke Hi Alasdair, Well done - see you at a DOTH shortly in the new one!. Cheers, Paddy Paddy Clarke Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM From raimo.toivio@rwm.fi Wed Jun 18 20:58:47 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trims Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:58:47 From: Raimo Toivio Where should the trim be during engine failure on takeoff? During engine failure on takeoff you have no time to trim. Better to concentrate to land beautifully. So, I would keep it as untouchment = as neutral = as normally during takeoff and & landing. Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fergus Kyle" Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:14 PM Subject: Europa-List: Trims > > Just a cautionary note: > Some newer aviators occasionally make the approach with the aircraft > pitch-trimmed for round-out on landing. That makes it easier for leisurely > arrivals. > However, some aircraft (not the Europa apparently) are very > difficult to control in pitch if a baulked landing is called for - as in > somebody enters the runway ahead of you and go-around is necessary. When the > pitch trim motor is slow, the move to full overshoot power produces an > unexpected nose-up surge. While the Europa seems to provide sufficient > leverage to overcome this mis-trim, it takes swift reaction not to be > overwhelmed (the action is as quick as the throttle moves). Many a surprised > Lysander driver has looped on go-around - stings a bit. > I'll be trimming for go-around and compensating during round-out. > Besides, slight out-of-trim produces a more sensitive feel on the stick and > thus supports increased accuracy. > Cheers, > Ferg > PS: Corollary: Where should the trim be during engine failure on takeoff? > > > > > > From ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk Wed Jun 18 20:03:32 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:03:32 From: Duncan & Ami McFadyean Alasdair, WIll it be at Brimpton this w'end? For us all to admire. Rgds., Duncan. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A B Milne Sent: 17 June 2008 06:52 To: Europa List Subject: Europa-List: First Flight Another Europa XS Trigear is on its way to join the UK fleet. G - CEYK flew from Oxford for the first time on Saturday last. No dramas, just the interest provided by having myself as builder on his first as a test pilot. Regards Alasdair Milne - The Europa-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution From raimo.toivio@rwm.fi Wed Jun 18 23:57:59 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 23:57:59 From: Raimo Toivio Hi All Below are my earlier questions - please comments Gentlemen! My comments to my questions: 1) I think it is possible to fy w/o trim position indicator. Anyway I have now a new indicator. 2) I guess 22 s is just normal (cannot compare, but Jos thought so). "Full power" means full electric power w/o any trim speed control (I have controlable speed for cruising with changeover switch for full power when landing). 3) No idea 4) How about reed relays? Are there reed relays to control stops? My trim stops are ok. When travelling to the upper or lower end, current was 0 mA + led consumption. My servo was ok - changing trim indicator was only fun. I would like to limit neutral to nose upp travel but thats another story. Fly far away from horny clouds, Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raimo Toivio" Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 11:34 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). Thanks Bob and all, before "I get back on that horse and ride again" I have some guestions for you: 1) I can fly w/o trim position indicator, can I? Before take-off I trim it middle and rest is just like flying w Cessnas mechanical trim. Neutral during take-off and then after how you feel good. 2) With full power my trim travel time is exactly 22 seconds. Please confirm thats ok and normal! 3) I have an Europa original square type 1A CB for trim. Is it possible it was open but button itself was still in? I am asking this because I did not have trim ability and CB button was same time in the IN position. After in the hangar suddenly the trim motor waked upp and started to operate. Any other explanations? 4) Is there in the trim motor /servo some kind of inbuilt thermal switch? If yes - that would be a good explanation for question 3. I have asked this from RAC but did not got any answer so far. If I shall end upp to change also servo that will be a little nightmare. That is because I have fixed it with nylocnuts and bolts and there is no inspection hatch for those nuts. I wanted to save 15 minutes and elected not to instal fixed wing nuts (4 pcs). The price will be in that case some lamination and painting practise. Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Borger" Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 3:34 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: An another incident for Finnish Europa around Barkaby Fly-inn Sweden (!). Raimo, Thank goodness you and your passenger were not harmed. Two folks have now shown that it is possible to survive a lightning strike in the Europa. Gents, that's enough. No further need for continued demonstrations! I appreciate your candor in the description of the event. We all need to learn ---From our collective experiences. Now take a brief rest with the family while you investigate and repair the damage. Then you'll be ready to get back on that horse and ride again. Check six, Bob Borger On Sunday, June 08, 2008, at 05:28PM, "Raimo Toivio" wrote: > >Hi all > >My sad responsibility is to report also my incident as follows: > >I was flying back from Barkaby to Finland Tampere (EFTP) via Ume (ESNU). >Two legs, 3 hrs and 1 hrs 20 minutes. >Half an hour from EFTP I met two thunder storm centres. I elected to fly between them. >Seemed for me to be just a normal practise. QNH altitude 4000 feet, airspeed 130 knots, >ground speed 150 knots, air temp 22C, plane was well trimmed and loaded near MTOW >658 kg /1450 lbs.Almost overcast (5/8) about 6000 feet. We saw quite strong lightnings >both sides. > >Suddenly I got a STRONG electric shock like static or similar to my right hand ---From the power lever. >My friend got a similar shock to his ears through head sets. >Very heavy raining started immediately. >Radio started awful whistling and whining. > >What the hell was happening we asked each others. >Plane was still flying well. >We saw no damages on the wing surfaces etc. >Radio stopped whistling after five minutes or so. >I was checking all the equipments I could. > >During that inspection I noticed I have no trim position display any more (I have those green MAC leds). >I tried to trim but nothing happened. >CB (Europa suplied) was in position. >I tried via change over swith my another lower speed trim adjusting switch but nothing happened. >Just for in case I opened trim CB to avoid possibility of the trim auto-run case. > >I have to mention we had with Jos a discussion of that case and he stated that if it goes to the other side, >it is impossible to keep pitch control any more. And that discussion was this morning! > >So, I was flying over EFTP. Altitude 3000 feet. There was a whole circus like several fire trucks, police and >ambulances. Carefully I slowed the speed to 80 knots to test what happens during flaps/gear lowering. >You remember I had lost my electric trim and it was trimmed for 130 knots. > >During my normal abroach speed 70 knots I can tell you the nose was VERY heavy but still controlable. >Just in case my strong friend helped me by pulling his stick also. >I keeped that speed until touching the runway and it was one of my best monowheel landing ever >(like Jos reported today in his other case EFHF). > >ATC men, fire men and all the others congratulated me. We were alive and OH-XRT was still in one piece. > >I taxied to the hangar and after half an hour trim motor started to work by itself. >Still there was no its position lights. Trim CB was working normally. > >We fast checked the plane and obviously the lightning has gone trough stbd-side stabilator pip-pin to the structure. The pip-pin cover (transparent sticker) was explosed and the head of the pip-pin was black. > >That was it. I drove home, kissed my daughters and wife and opened a bottle of bier. > >BTW - when we were over EFTP, my friend measured my pulse rate and it was 150. > >That was an interesting experience. Some of you know that I made last summer a serioush but super lucky >forced landing in Lappland because my Cessnas mechanical trim was working uppsidedown. >That was because a service error of certified service company Arctic Airservice. > >Trim controls are my nightmares and devils lurking to make me a bad day. > >I grounded my Europa of course. I am not sure what to do now. >If I later decide to continue flying, I have to fix it first and and check it carefully. >I called Jos (thank you) and he advised me to check everything. > >Have you there any ideas for me, please? > >Raimo >OH-XRT, 64 hrs, grounded so far From hagargs@earthlink.net Wed Jun 18 20:06:04 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel tank dimensions Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:06:04 From: Steve Hagar Svein: It sounds like you are doing almost exactly what I am planning to do. A little higher and a little narrower. It doesn't give too much extra capacity however. I was going to use the bottom of the door sills as my upper limit. So that gives about 2 inches or so. One thing I was contemplating on doing was making a square box section to extend into the baggage bay just over the hump in the middle possibly a 10 X 10 X 8 inch volume about 13 liters in addition to raising the lid. Here are the dimensions I have in inches: A = 11.00 B = 10.50 C = 15.50 D = 12.00 E = 8.25 Top front = 41.00 Top back = 40.25 Top along seam = 41.125 Inside saddle back = 7.125 Inside saddle front = 6.75 Steve Hagar A143 Mesa, AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: Sidsel & Svein Johnsen Sent: 6/18/2008 5:51:41 AM Subject: Europa-List: Fuel tank dimensions I am considering a new tank - I don't like the prospect of a crack when flying over Norwegian terrain - - - - - . Will in case make it higher than the original to compensate for less width (so as to get it into the fuselage after cutting open the cockpit module top) and in order to get more long range fuel capacity. Before I remove the existing tank, I wish to evaluate tank material, dimensions and design details as far as possible, and only make small adjustments after taking actual measurement of the available space. I have received a sketch with dimensions from EA2004, but they cannot confirm that it is an as-built drawing. The problem is that the volume calculated on the basis of this sketch is about 20% larger than what our tanks actually contain. If anyone has a tank not yet installed, I would appreciate very much to receive the dimensions A to E as marked on the attached sketch - in millimeters or inches. Note: Measurement E should be taken close to the centerline, not in way of the recesses for the aileron quick-connects at the sides. I have blacked out the dimensions received from Europa, in order not to mislead anyone. Best regards, Svein LN-SKJ From paul.the.aviator@gmail.com Thu Jun 19 00:03:35 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel tank dimensions Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 00:03:35 From: Paul McAllister Hi Steve, Suppose that this mightn't be a great idea, but has anyone considered cutting the top of the seat back area and simply fiber glassing in the whole area. My aircraft, (LongEze for example) have the tanks made out of fiberglass. I bet with a but of care you could expand the capacity even more. Just a thought. Paul From sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no Thu Jun 19 08:22:37 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel tank dimensions Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 08:22:37 From: Sidsel & Svein Johnsen Steve, Thank you very much for measuring the dimensions I asked for, plus some in addition. Can you explain where you measured the "inside saddle back" and "inside saddle front"? Regarding the square box section extending into the baggage bay just over the hump in the middle: I am afraid that this would reduce the transverse strength of the cockpit module (CM) too much. Admittedly, much of the forces from the wings' lift and drag are equalized between them by the cross bar just aft of the CM, but I will not take any risk here. Cutting off the CM top and refitting it (at same level or higher) will not compromise the aircrafts structural strength. My plan - if I go ahead with it - would be to lift the top at least 4 inches (probably more) to maximize the volume, and make the head rests so that the shoulder belts will go back from my shoulders at an up angle of 35 degrees (ref. previous discussions the spine compression and European VLA seat belt rules). Best regards, Svein From craigb@onthenet.com.au Thu Jun 19 18:48:42 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel tank dimensions Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:48:42 From: craig bastin I am doing the same as you suggest Svein, and have allowed for it when building the CM and the fuel system. Now that the top of the fusealage is bonded on, the top of the seats is coming off and i am lifting it up 110mm, one reason is to fix the seat belt issue, the other is to allow for a second tank sitting on top of the main tank, total volume is 28 litres, giving almost 100litres total, it fills from the return line on the engine and is set up to be an independant reserve tank, so any fuel in there has already been filtered by the main gascolator. and is then run through a second gascolator between the reserve tank and the fuel selector. When the reserve tank is full it overflows back into the main tank. Tank is 1.5mm alloy wrapped in glass using vinyl ester resin, which is what the glasair's are made from and they run wet wings with no lining (according to a builder I visited) craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein Johnsen Sent: Thursday, 19 June 2008 4:23 PM To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel tank dimensions Steve, Thank you very much for measuring the dimensions I asked for, plus some in addition. Can you explain where you measured the "inside saddle back" and "inside saddle front"? Regarding the square box section extending into the baggage bay just over the hump in the middle: I am afraid that this would reduce the transverse strength of the cockpit module (CM) too much. Admittedly, much of the forces from the wings' lift and drag are equalized between them by the cross bar just aft of the CM, but I will not take any risk here. Cutting off the CM top and refitting it (at same level or higher) will not compromise the aircrafts structural strength. My plan - if I go ahead with it - would be to lift the top at least 4 inches (probably more) to maximize the volume, and make the head rests so that the shoulder belts will go back ---From my shoulders at an up angle of 35 degrees (ref. previous discussions the spine compression and European VLA seat belt rules). Best regards, Svein Checked by AVG. 9:08 PM From sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no Thu Jun 19 11:31:18 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel tank dimensions Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:31:18 From: Sidsel & Svein Johnsen Craig, That is a very interesting solution, if I understand you correctly: - You have the original Europa tank inside the CM - You cut the head rests off - On top of the CM you then place the independant reserve tank - On top of this (probably bonded to the CM) comes low head rests, height adjusted for good angle of the shoulder belts - The independant top tank feeds the engine (via suction side of electric fuel pump), so that if you should experience a crack in the original tank you still have 28 litres of fuel - Topping off the independant tank by the fuel return is ingenious - you then avoid dumping unused fuel at the rate of about 9 litres per hour (that's how much goes through the return line even with the very narrow orifice in the line) through a cracked original tank Questions: - How will you fill up the top tank before flight - through the standard filler neck somehow, or through a filler opening on its top? - Wrapping of the alloy tank by vinyl ester resin: I assume this is how you will build the extension of the seat back and the CM back/sides and the new top, plus the new headrests. Will you wrap it closely to the alloy tank to add strength, and make this new "box" tight so that you have an extra barrier in case the alloy tank should spring a leak somehow (I assume so, since you will use vinyl ester which should stand up well agains gasoline)? - How does vinyl ester bond to the epoxy used in the original CM structure (I am totally ignorant on this, so I am not implying any doubt)? - Have you done the design of the alloy tank and its fuel in/out connections yet, and figured out how to make the new headrests, etc.? I think your solution is much better than tearing out a working original tank before it cracks (if it ever does), and would be a nice winter project (when are we ever declaring our airplanes "completed"?!). Best regards, Svein ----- Original Message ----- From: craig bastin To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:48 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel tank dimensions I am doing the same as you suggest Svein, and have allowed for it when building the CM and the fuel system. Now that the top of the fusealage is bonded on, the top of the seats is coming off and i am lifting it up 110mm, one reason is to fix the seat belt issue, the other is to allow for a second tank sitting on top of the main tank, total volume is 28 litres, giving almost 100litres total, it fills from the return line on the engine and is set up to be an independant reserve tank, so any fuel in there has already been filtered by the main gascolator. and is then run through a second gascolator between the reserve tank and the fuel selector. When the reserve tank is full it overflows back into the main tank. Tank is 1.5mm alloy wrapped in glass using vinyl ester resin, which is what the glasair's are made from and they run wet wings with no lining (according to a builder I visited) craig From danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk Thu Jun 19 16:26:34 2008 Subject: Europa-List: graham singleton mod Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:26:34 From: danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk Hi All, Does any know the mod number of Graham Singleton's firewall mod? I'm just finishing the paper work for the final inspection. I don't know about you guys, but I'm finding this the hardest part of the build. :-( Danny G-c.e.r.i From JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Thu Jun 19 19:06:06 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: graham singleton mod Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:06:06 From: JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Hi Danny Good question. I too have Graham Singleton's firewall mod and was just about to check with the LAA what the mod number is. The LAA website shows mod 10024 "Removable composite firewall" as a mod approved "all of type" (Europa Classic only). Presumably this is Graham Singleton's mod. However, Graham in his build instructions quotes a different mod number (mod 11123, as approved by the PFA for Europa Classic G-KWIP). I have the XS version of Graham's mod and hopefully the LAA will approve this without any further paperwork on the back of mods 10024 and 11123. If another XS builder has already sorted this out with the LAA perhaps they could respond? John Heykoop XS mono G-JHKP In a message dated 19/06/2008 16:37:38 GMT Standard Time, danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk writes: --> Europa-List message posted by: "danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk" Hi All, Does any know the mod number of Graham Singleton's firewall mod? I'm just finishing the paper work for the final inspection. I don't know about you guys, but I'm finding this the hardest part of the build. :-( Danny G-c.e.r.i From danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk Fri Jun 20 10:13:36 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: graham singleton mod Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:13:36 From: danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk Cheers John, I thought I was being "dum" not being able to find the mod number. Now I feel vindicated :-) . Danny XS tri G-CERI JohnDHeykoop@aol.com wrote: > Hi Danny > > Good question. I too have Graham Singleton's firewall mod and was just > about to check with the LAA what the mod number is. > > The LAA website shows mod 10024 "Removable composite firewall" as a > mod approved "all of type" (Europa Classic only). Presumably this is > Graham Singleton's mod. > > However, Graham in his build instructions quotes a different mod > number (mod 11123, as approved by the PFA for Europa Classic G-KWIP). > > I have the XS version of Graham's mod and hopefully the LAA will > approve this without any further paperwork on the back of mods 10024 > and 11123. If another XS builder has already sorted this out with > the LAA perhaps they could respond? > > John Heykoop > XS mono G-JHKP > > In a message dated 19/06/2008 16:37:38 GMT Standard Time, > danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk writes: > > > > Hi All, > Does any know the mod number of Graham Singleton's firewall > mod? I'm just finishing the paper work for the final inspection. I > don't know about you guys, but I'm finding this the hardest part > of the > build. :-( > > Danny G-c.e.r.i > > > >* > > >* > From giani@ntlworld.com Fri Jun 20 11:07:28 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: graham singleton mod Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:07:28 From: G-IANI John, Danny What John has said is correct. There are at least two mods covering Graham's firewall. I have, in the past, chased PFA to get one of these turned into a standard mod but with no results. At the moment, in theory, you need specific approval for the mod on your aircraft BUT recently LAA have started to treat "All of Type" mods as if they are "Standard". What I suggest you do is document your build as incorporating 11123 and put the paperwork in. If the PFA come back with a query then I will try and sort it out with Andy Draper. Where on the Web site did you find " The LAA website shows mod 10024 "Removable composite firewall" as a mod approved "all of type" (Europa Classic only). I have it on a list produced for me by PFA in 2006 but cannot find it via the Web site. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com From danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk Fri Jun 20 11:57:50 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: graham singleton mod Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:57:50 From: danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk Wilco and thanks Danny G-IANI wrote: > John, Danny > > What John has said is correct. There are at least two mods covering > Graham's firewall. I have, in the past, chased PFA to get one of > these turned into a standard mod but with no results. At the moment, > in theory, you need specific approval for the mod on your aircraft > BUT recently LAA have started to treat "All of Type" mods as if they > are "Standard". > > What I suggest you do is document your build as incorporating 11123 > and put the paperwork in. If the PFA come back with a query then I > will try and sort it out with Andy Draper. > > > Where on the Web site did you find " The LAA website shows mod 10024 > "Removable composite firewall" as a mod approved "all of type" (Europa > Classic only). I have it on a list produced for me by PFA in 2006 but > cannot find it via the Web site. > > Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours > Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) > e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk > or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com > > > > >* > > >* > From JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Fri Jun 20 07:33:45 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: graham singleton mod Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:33:45 From: JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Ian On the LAA website select Engineering - Mods & Repairs - TL3.07 Using a mod approved for all type. Scroll down on that page and you will find a list of all the "mods of all type" approved for the Europa. Mod 10024 is the first one on this list. John Heykoop XS mono G-JHKP In a message dated 20/06/2008 11:12:03 GMT Standard Time, g-iani@ntlworld.com writes: Where on the Web site did you find " The LAA website shows mod 10024 "Removable composite firewall" as a mod approved "all of type" (Europa Classic only). I have it on a list produced for me by PFA in 2006 but cannot find it via the Web site. From mau11@free.fr Fri Jun 20 13:24:25 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: graham singleton mod Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 13:24:25 From: Michel AUVRAY JohnDHeykoop@aol.com a crit : > Ian > > On the LAA website select Engineering - Mods & Repairs - TL3.07 Using > a mod approved for all type. > > Scroll down on that page and you will find a list of all the "mods of > all type" approved for the Europa. Mod 10024 is the first one on this > list. > > John Heykoop > XS mono G-JHKP > > In a message dated 20/06/2008 11:12:03 GMT Standard Time, > g-iani@ntlworld.com writes: > > > Where on the Web site did you find " The LAA website shows mod > 10024 "Removable composite firewall" as a mod approved "all of > type" (Europa Classic only). I have it on a list produced for me > by PFA in 2006 but cannot find it via the Web site. > > > > * > > > * Hi Graham, what is LAA? Do you have site web adress? Thanks -- --|-- --------(*)-------- Michel AUVRAY mau11@free.fr From JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Fri Jun 20 09:53:00 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: graham singleton mod Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:53:00 From: JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Michel The PFA (Popular Flying Association) has changed its name to LAA (Light Aircraft Association). Its website address is _www.laa.uk.com_ (http://www.laa.uk.com) John Heykoop XS mono G-JHKP In a message dated 20/06/2008 13:28:31 GMT Standard Time, mau11@free.fr writes: Hi Graham, what is LAA? Do you have site web adress? Thanks From wdaniell@etb.net.co Fri Jun 20 10:23:51 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: graham singleton mod Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:23:51 From: William Daniell Do I find how to make this? In the same place? Will From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 05:58 Subject: Re: Europa-List: graham singleton mod Wilco and thanks Danny G-IANI wrote: John, Danny What John has said is correct. There are at least two mods covering Graham's firewall. I have, in the past, chased PFA to get one of these turned into a standard mod but with no results. At the moment, in theory, you need specific approval for the mod on your aircraft BUT recently LAA have started to treat "All of Type" mods as if they are "Standard". What I suggest you do is document your build as incorporating 11123 and put the paperwork in. If the PFA come back with a query then I will try and sort it out with Andy Draper. Where on the Web site did you find " The LAA website shows mod 10024 "Removable composite firewall" as a mod approved "all of type" (Europa Classic only). I have it on a list produced for me by PFA in 2006 but cannot find it via the Web site. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail HYPERLINK "mailto:mods@europaclub.org.uk"mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct HYPERLINK "mailto:g-iani@ntlworld.com"g-iani@ntlworld.com Checked by AVG. 21:08 From jeffreyjparis@excite.com Sat Jun 21 07:24:04 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Question on rudder cable bearing location? Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:24:04 From: Jeffrey J Paris Dear Thread, A quick question? I am in the process of running my rudder cables. I am at the part of the instructions in which we fabricated the 20mm x 30mm Tufnil blocks that are to be located on the plywood triangle seat support ribs. When we place ours on the rib the cable ends up rubbing on the inside walls of the console. If we make new and deeper blocks I'm concerned with clearance of the landing gear (monowheel). Does anybody have pictures or run into the same problem. I may have just place the triangle rib supports a tad bit outboard than I should have. Thank you for your time and consideration. Cheers, Jeff Paris Kit # A012 Classic Monowheel _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From hagargs@earthlink.net Sat Jun 21 07:15:11 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Question on rudder cable bearing location? Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:15:11 From: Steve Hagar Jeff: Make some guides out of Nylaflo tubing to run the cables through, for the sides of the wheel well cavity. It is available through Aircraft Spruce. Steve Hagar A143 Mesa, AZ > [Original Message] > From: Jeffrey J Paris > To: > Date: 6/21/2008 4:31:45 AM > Subject: Europa-List: Question on rudder cable bearing location? > > > > Dear Thread, > > A quick question? I am in the process of running my rudder cables. I am at the part of the instructions in which we fabricated the 20mm x 30mm Tufnil blocks that are to be located on the plywood triangle seat support ribs. When we place ours on the rib the cable ends up rubbing on the inside walls of the console. If we make new and deeper blocks I'm concerned with clearance of the landing gear (monowheel). Does anybody have pictures or run into the same problem. I may have just place the triangle rib supports a tad bit outboard than I should have. > > Thank you for your time and consideration. > > Cheers, > > Jeff Paris Kit # A012 Classic Monowheel > > > _______________________________________________ > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com > The most personalized portal on the Web! > > From jeffreyjparis@excite.com Sat Jun 21 14:43:25 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Question on rudder cable bearing location? Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:43:25 From: Jeffrey J Paris Thanks Steve excellent idea! --- On Sat 06/21, Steve Hagar < hagargs@earthlink.net > wrote: From: Steve Hagar [mailto: hagargs@earthlink.net] Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:15:11 -0700 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Question on rudder cable bearing location? _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk Sat Jun 21 20:06:29 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Question on rudder cable bearing location? Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 20:06:29 From: Robert C Harrison Hi! Jeffrey Yes, the suggestions others have made about running your cables through tubing is good but don't despair if you later find you need another run slightly diverting. As an afterthought without removing the cable to put another length of tubing in place then use some spiral wrap electrical conduit by winding it into pace. A dab of redux here and there fixes it. Regards Bob Harrison. G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey J Paris Sent: 21 June 2008 12:24 Subject: Europa-List: Question on rudder cable bearing location? Dear Thread, A quick question? I am in the process of running my rudder cables. I am at the part of the instructions in which we fabricated the 20mm x 30mm Tufnil blocks that are to be located on the plywood triangle seat support ribs. When we place ours on the rib the cable ends up rubbing on the inside walls of the console. If we make new and deeper blocks I'm concerned with clearance of the landing gear (monowheel). Does anybody have pictures or run into the same problem. I may have just place the triangle rib supports a tad bit outboard than I should have. Thank you for your time and consideration. Cheers, Jeff Paris Kit # A012 Classic Monowheel _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From rlborger@mac.com Sat Jun 21 14:15:30 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Question on rudder cable bearing location? Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:15:30 From: Robert Borger Jeff, Check my build web site (URL in signature block). Go to album Year #3, Q1 2004. Down toward the bottom is a pic taken down the tunnel, looking aft, of the rudder cables, pulleys and the safety blocks. You can see the rudder cables coming out of the nylon, Nyloflow tubing. If this isn't what you want, let me know and I'll try to find a pic with the information you need. Good building and great flying, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL (95% done, only 95% to go) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system in, landing gear complete, rudder system in with Singleton Mod, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in, baggage bay in. Fuel system complete. Rotax and Airmaster installed. Mods 62, 66, 70 & 72 done. Completed the instrument panel install. Europa interior kit being installed. Installed windows. Working in - 25 Electrical, 28 Flaps, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing. Mostly finishing these days. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Jun 21, 2008, at 6:24, Jeffrey J Paris wrote: > > > > > Dear Thread, > > A quick question? I am in the process of running my rudder cables. > I am at the part of the instructions in which we fabricated the 20mm > x 30mm Tufnil blocks that are to be located on the plywood triangle > seat support ribs. When we place ours on the rib the cable ends up > rubbing on the inside walls of the console. If we make new and > deeper blocks I'm concerned with clearance of the landing gear > (monowheel). Does anybody have pictures or run into the same > problem. I may have just place the triangle rib supports a tad bit > outboard than I should have. > > Thank you for your time and consideration. > > Cheers, > > Jeff Paris Kit # A012 Classic Monowheel > > > _______________________________________________ > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com > The most personalized portal on the Web! > > From VE3LVO@rac.ca Sat Jun 21 16:57:14 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Re-routing coolant lines, 914UL/3 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 16:57:14 From: Fergus Kyle Cheers, I must revise the water circuit lines from the cylinder heads of #1 and #3 to the reservoir to accommodate the SD-20 alternator. This involves re-routing 17mm water tubes rearward which in turn requires swiveling the applicable bent tubes through the sockets on the heads by loosening the M6x20 Allen screws. If you have done this (I am a tyro) what precautions do you take to re-position and tighten the Allen screws on the sockets holding them? For examples, kindly see the WATER CIRCUIT, NEW STYLE and the CYLINDER HEAD, INTAKE MANIFOLD, FILTER parts diagrams. Thanks, Ferg Kyle From VE3LVO@rac.ca Sat Jun 21 16:57:15 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Re-routing coolant lines, 914UL/3 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 16:57:15 From: Fergus Kyle Cheers, I must revise the water circuit lines from the cylinder heads of #1 and #3 to the reservoir to accommodate the SD-20 alternator. This involves re-routing 17mm water tubes rearward which in turn requires swiveling the applicable bent tubes through the sockets on the heads by loosening the M6x20 Allen screws. If you have done this (I am a tyro) what precautions do you take to re-position and tighten the Allen screws on the sockets holding them? For examples, kindly see the WATER CIRCUIT, NEW STYLE and the CYLINDER HEAD, INTAKE MANIFOLD, FILTER parts diagrams. Thanks, Ferg Kyle From craigb@onthenet.com.au Sun Jun 22 08:20:05 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Main spar pins/bushes Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 08:20:05 From: raggi6771 For those of you who have had the same issues, I have found that i cant get the port side pin to install. The hole/bush in the CM is about 3 - 4mm too high so i have to move it. Question is do I move just to port side bush, or both to keep things even. My feeling is to move both so they can be reduxed in-situ and give me a very easy rigging, and also ensure that the wings are even with regard to elevators. The starboard bolt can be installed by hand in the port spar but is tight through the rear starboard wing spar. The wings measure at 4.6 degrees of dihedral on both with the starboard pin installed Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org From craigb@onthenet.com.au Sun Jun 22 10:06:40 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel tank dimensions Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 10:06:40 From: raggi6771 Svein, yes the wrap of the alloy tank was as you suggested to add a second layer of sealing and make the tank stronger as well. I started making a totally vinyl ester tank, but had concerns about mounting the fittings into the tank and getting a good seal. The plan was to allow filling through the "overflow" from the reserve back into the filler neck above the main tank inlet, and also if desired the reserve pump could be turned on during filling, or before, to fill the reserve from the main, as in theory the main should still have fuel in it. The reserve pump i have will pump 15 litres a minute in free state and up to about 35 psi if restricted which will fill the reserve quickly either way. As for the seats and the headrests etc I reuse the original and glass it back on with a slight reduction in width front to back to maintain the angles. I dint believe it is possible to get a good bond between epoxy and vinyl ester resin so I have i the reserve tank "captive" between the main tank and the seat top. Given the reserve tank is long and not very tall, the tank has baffles to stop the fuel running from side to side if it is less than full. Its not quite as much fuel as the plug in long range tank Europa sell but it is close, and it should meet the requirements of only drawing fuel ---From one tank at a time that some countries have. Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org From jeffreyjparis@excite.com Sun Jun 22 09:09:59 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Question on rudder cable bearing location? Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 09:09:59 From: Jeffrey J Paris Thanks Bob! --- On Sat 06/21, Robert Borger < rlborger@mac.com > wrote: From: Robert Borger [mailto: rlborger@mac.com] Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:15:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Question on rudder cable bearing location? _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From air.guerner@wanadoo.fr Sun Jun 22 18:31:59 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Re-routing coolant lines, 914UL/3 Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 18:31:59 From: Remi Guerner Hi Ferg, Loosening the Allen screws does not allow swiveling the elbows. You need to remove the flange/elbow sub assembly from the engine, then unscrew the elbow from the flange, clean the treads on both the elbow and the flange with a solvent (acetone works for that), cover the treads with Loctite 243 or equivalent, screw the elbow in the flange, fit to the engine with a new o-ring, swivel the elbow in the suitable position, let the loctite cure before operation. I had to do that on cyl 1 and 2 because I had a leak at the treads. Hope that helps. Regards Remi re-routing 17mm water tubes rearward which in turn requires swiveling the applicable bent tubes through the sockets on the heads by loosening the M6x20 Allen screws. From aireupora@sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 22 16:15:29 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 16:15:29 From: Rick Stockton I have found one drawing of the front bulkhead that shows two pieces cut to 260 x 260x3mm, but my opening is larger and I can't find what chapter it addresses this bulkhead. From philiplincoln@hotmail.com Mon Jun 23 11:49:56 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:49:56 From: Philip Lincoln This was mentioned in the Tech Talk part of 'Europa Aircraft News' from Dec . 1999 (Issue No.24). Has still not been added to the manual as far as I ca n see. I built it in before bonding in the Cockpit Module (tricky to do after bond ing I think...), i.e. it should probably be part of Ch.17. I first measured the actual sizes that would be needed then cut and trimed (the ply) to fit 'exactly'. Have attached a photo of the page (can send the original to anyone who want s/needs it). Regards, Philip Lincoln (Stockholm, Sweden, Kit 426) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 16:15:29 -0700From: aireupora@sbcglobal.netSubject: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkheadTo: europa-list@matronics.comI have fou nd one drawing of the front bulkhead that shows two pieces cut to 260 x 260 x3mm, but my opening is larger and I can't find what chapter it addresses t his bulkhead. _________________________________________________________________ Skapa dina egna uttryckssymboler till Messenger! www.windowslive.se/dinegensmiley /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAAEASABIAAD//gAfTEVBRCBUZWNobm9sb2dpZXMgSW5jLiBWMS4wMQD/2wCE AAwICQsJCAwLCgsODQwPEyAUExEREyccHRcgLigwMC0oLCwzOUk+MzZFNywsQFdARUxOUlNSMT1a YFlQYElQUk8BDQ4OExATJRQUJU80LDRPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09P T09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT//EAaIAAAEFAQEBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAABAgMEBQYHCAkKCwEAAwEBAQEB AQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoLEAACAQMDAgQDBQUEBAAAAX0BAgMABBEFEiExQQYTUWEHInEU MoGRoQgjQrHBFVLR8CQzYnKCCQoWFxgZGiUmJygpKjQ1Njc4OTpDREVGR0hJSlNUVVZXWFlaY2Rl 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Roger Bull at the factory. It would seem there has been a bit of lack of joined up action. You are quite right to notice the issue of the instruction in the Europa Aircraft News. At the time it was issued as a structural requirement for Tri Gears only. Subsequent analysis by Barry Mellors at the then PFA now LAA has shown that this bulkhead is not necessary. This is why it never appeared in the manual. Unfortunately the factory failed to issue any notice to this effect and hence your query. I hope this helps Pete Jeffers (Europa Club Inspector) _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Philip Lincoln Sent: 23 June 2008 10:50 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead This was mentioned in the Tech Talk part of 'Europa Aircraft News' from Dec. 1999 (Issue No.24). Has still not been added to the manual as far as I can see. I built it in before bonding in the Cockpit Module (tricky to do after bonding I think...), i.e. it should probably be part of Ch.17. I first measured the actual sizes that would be needed then cut and trimed (the ply) to fit 'exactly'. Have attached a photo of the page (can send the original to anyone who wants/needs it). Regards, Philip Lincoln (Stockholm, Sweden, Kit 426) _____ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 16:15:29 -0700 From: aireupora@sbcglobal.net Subject: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead I have found one drawing of the front bulkhead that shows two pieces cut to 260 x 260x3mm, but my opening is larger and I can't find what chapter it addresses this bulkhead. _____ H=E4r hittar du allt om Allsvenskan! MSN Sport Checked by AVG. 6/22/2008 7:52 AM From pjeffers@talktalk.net Mon Jun 23 15:26:47 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Europa Service Bulletin 16 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:26:47 From: Peter Jeffers Hi all, Please note that Europa Aircraft have just issued Service Bulletin 16 which concerns flap drive pin engagement. Be advised that this SB is Mandatory for all LAA (PFA) Europas and should be considered highly desirable for all other Europas worldwide. You will find the Bulletin on the Europa Web site at http://www.europa-aircraft.co.uk/ . If you find that you're A/C does not comply Europa A/C have a straight forward fix. Pete Jeffers (Europa Club Inspector _____ Checked by AVG. 7:52 AM From DuaneFamly@aol.com Mon Jun 23 16:10:35 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Dynon Temp Probe Location? Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:10:35 From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Good day All, I have been mulling over where I could/should install the OAT temp probe used in conjunction with the Dynon EFIS D100. I would like to install it in the external carb air intake in order to monitor possible carb icing, but the cable is not long enough to reach the Remote Magnetic Compass module. I can't mount it under the belly because of the engine exhaust. So I was wondering where others may have mounted their probe? Thanks in advance for all replies. Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300 Sensenich R64Z N Ground Adjustable Prop **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From budyerly@msn.com Mon Jun 23 16:54:46 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Dynon Temp Probe Location? Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:54:46 From: ALAN YERLY Mike, If you are using the Jab airbox mounted to the firewall, hook it to an Adel clamp just inside the airbox prior to the filter. If the cable isn't long enough, make a cannon plug to go through the firewall, or make a jumper. I hook all my electrics through the firewall via cannon plugs. An engine removal or other maintenance is made very simple. If crimping is a problem for you, buy the right tool and learn to do it right and you will be thankful. I have a used airplane at the shop I am rebuilding and it is a pain to run wires direct from the engine to the panel. You can't remove either the engine or the panel easily for repairs or mods. Typically, my panels come out in less time than it takes to take off the engine cowl. Engines take about two hours. Cannon plugs make that happen. Bud Yerly Custom Flight ----- Original Message ----- From: DuaneFamly@aol.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 4:10 PM Subject: Europa-List: Dynon Temp Probe Location? Good day All, I have been mulling over where I could/should install the OAT temp probe used in conjunction with the Dynon EFIS D100. I would like to install it in the external carb air intake in order to monitor possible carb icing, but the cable is not long enough to reach the Remote Magnetic Compass module. I can't mount it under the belly because of the engine exhaust. So I was wondering where others may have mounted their probe? Thanks in advance for all replies. Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300 Sensenich R64Z N Ground Adjustable Prop ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution From aireupora@sbcglobal.net Mon Jun 23 16:44:39 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:44:39 From: Rick Stockton looks like I goofed!!! Philip Lincoln wrote: .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } This was mentioned in the Tech Talk part of 'Europa Aircraft News' from Dec. 1999 (Issue No.24). Has still not been added to the manual as far as I can see. I built it in before bonding in the Cockpit Module (tricky to do after bonding I think...), i.e. it should probably be part of Ch.17. I first measured the actual sizes that would be needed then cut and trimed (the ply) to fit 'exactly'. Have attached a photo of the page (can send the original to anyone who wants/needs it). Regards, Philip Lincoln (Stockholm, Sweden, Kit 426) --------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 16:15:29 -0700 From: aireupora@sbcglobal.net Subject: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead I have found one drawing of the front bulkhead that shows two pieces cut to 260 x 260x3mm, but my opening is larger and I can't find what chapter it addresses this bulkhead. --------------------------------- Hr hittar du allt om Allsvenskan! MSN Sport From aireupora@sbcglobal.net Mon Jun 23 16:48:16 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:48:16 From: Rick Stockton If I read this correctly I do need need the bulkhead. Does the stainless steel plating around the nose mount stop the air from going down the tunnel area? I would think that the air is not stopped. I'm wondering if there will be smells ---From the engine coming through the tunnel. Peter Jeffers wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } Hi Phillip, I have followed up your enquiry re the bulkhead on Tri Gear Europas with Roger Bull at the factory. It would seem there has been a bit of lack of joined up action. You are quite right to notice the issue of the instruction in the Europa Aircraft News. At the time it was issued as a structural requirement for Tri Gears only. Subsequent analysis by Barry Mellors at the then PFA now LAA has shown that this bulkhead is not necessary. This is why it never appeared in the manual. Unfortunately the factory failed to issue any notice to this effect and hence your query. I hope this helps Pete Jeffers (Europa Club Inspector) --------------------------------- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Philip Lincoln Sent: 23 June 2008 10:50 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead This was mentioned in the Tech Talk part of 'Europa Aircraft News' from Dec. 1999 (Issue No.24). Has still not been added to the manual as far as I can see. I built it in before bonding in the Cockpit Module (tricky to do after bonding I think...), i.e. it should probably be part of Ch.17. I first measured the actual sizes that would be needed then cut and trimed (the ply) to fit 'exactly'. Have attached a photo of the page (can send the original to anyone who wants/needs it). Regards, Philip Lincoln (Stockholm, Sweden, Kit 426) --------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 16:15:29 -0700 From: aireupora@sbcglobal.net Subject: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead I have found one drawing of the front bulkhead that shows two pieces cut to 260 x 260x3mm, but my opening is larger and I can't find what chapter it addresses this bulkhead. --------------------------------- Hr hittar du allt om Allsvenskan! MSN Sport Checked by AVG. 6/22/2008 7:52 AM From christoph.both@acadiau.ca Mon Jun 23 22:53:34 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:53:34 From: Christoph Both Folks, A bulkhead keeps all the fumes from the engine compartment out of the tunnel, where because of an slight lower pressure of the cabin during flight (if you have done the air ventilation right) it will be partially sucked into the cabin). It takes only an hour or so to size the two 3mm plywood parts, and glass them in (fix them with 5 minute epoxy!. The entire step took only 2 hours if I remember right. The bulkhead now serves me also beautifully as mounting base for fuel pump and other smaller items (glider wing spoiler mechanism bracket). It will also be protected on the engine facing side with a stainless steel insulation blanket (Firewall 200, Aircraft Spruce) to keep off heat and in case of fire being sucked through (which it WILL because it follows the line of lower pressure out under the belly) it will be stopped by this security blanket. There is every reason for TRI to have a completely closing bulkhead. Christoph Both #223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Stockton Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 8:48 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead If I read this correctly I do need need the bulkhead. Does the stainless steel plating around the nose mount stop the air from going down the tunnel area? I would think that the air is not stopped. I'm wondering if there will be smells from the engine coming through the tunnel. Peter Jeffers wrote: Hi Phillip, I have followed up your enquiry re the bulkhead on Tri Gear Europas with Roger Bull at the factory. It would seem there has been a bit of lack of joined up action. You are quite right to notice the issue of the instruction in the Europa Aircraft News. At the time it was issued as a structural requirement for Tri Gears only. Subsequent analysis by Barry Mellors at the then PFA now LAA has shown that this bulkhead is not necessary. This is why it never appeared in the manual. Unfortunately the factory failed to issue any notice to this effect and hence your query. I hope this helps Pete Jeffers (Europa Club Inspector) ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Philip Lincoln Sent: 23 June 2008 10:50 To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead This was mentioned in the Tech Talk part of 'Europa Aircraft News' from Dec. 1999 (Issue No.24). Has still not been added to the manual as far as I can see. I built it in before bonding in the Cockpit Module (tricky to do after bonding I think...), i.e. it should probably be part of Ch.17. I first measured the actual sizes that would be needed then cut and trimed (the ply) to fit 'exactly'. Have attached a photo of the page (can send the original to anyone who wants/needs it). Regards, Philip Lincoln (Stockholm, Sweden, Kit 426) ________________________________ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 16:15:29 -0700 From: aireupora@sbcglobal.net Subject: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead To: europa-list@matronics.com I have found one drawing of the front bulkhead that shows two pieces cut to 260 x 260x3mm, but my opening is larger and I can't find what chapter it addresses this bulkhead. From DuaneFamly@aol.com Mon Jun 23 23:46:39 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Dynon Temp Probe Location? Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 23:46:39 From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Thanks Bud, Completely forgot that the probe is a resistive unit and not a thermocouple. I think I'll go the Cannon plug route. Then since I've already added a temp probe to the carb itself to monitor any carb ice possibilities, I'll mount the Dynon probe at the NACA vent inlet to the carb, this way I'll still know what the outside air temp is even with carb heat on. Appreciate the mind joggle. Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300A Sensenich R64Z N Ground Adjustable Prop **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk Tue Jun 24 07:33:15 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:33:15 From: Robert C Harrison Hi! Cristoph and all I absolutely concur with your statement below. However ply burns so I used my piece of firewall removed for the landing gear frame, and by the good graces of a friend I obtained about 3" more to make up my forward bulkhead so now I have a fire resistant bulkhead in the front of the tunnel behind the stainless bulkhead. Ok structurally it may not be required but the fire problem is still a real consideration. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Trike 914 c/w intercooler. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christoph Both Sent: 24 June 2008 02:54 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead Folks, A bulkhead keeps all the fumes from the engine compartment out of the tunnel, where because of an slight lower pressure of the cabin during flight (if you have done the air ventilation right) it will be partially sucked into the cabin). It takes only an hour or so to size the two 3mm plywood parts, and glass them in (fix them with 5 minute epoxy!. The entire step took only 2 hours if I remember right. The bulkhead now serves me also beautifully as mounting base for fuel pump and other smaller items (glider wing spoiler mechanism bracket). It will also be protected on the engine facing side with a stainless steel insulation blanket (Firewall 200, Aircraft Spruce) to keep off heat and in case of fire being sucked through (which it WILL because it follows the line of lower pressure out under the belly) it will be stopped by this security blanket. There is every reason for TRI to have a completely closing bulkhead. Christoph Both #223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Stockton Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 8:48 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead If I read this correctly I do need need the bulkhead. Does the stainless steel plating around the nose mount stop the air from going down the tunnel area? I would think that the air is not stopped. I'm wondering if there will be smells from the engine coming through the tunnel. Peter Jeffers wrote: Hi Phillip, I have followed up your enquiry re the bulkhead on Tri Gear Europas with Roger Bull at the factory. It would seem there has been a bit of lack of joined up action. You are quite right to notice the issue of the instruction in the Europa Aircraft News. At the time it was issued as a structural requirement for Tri Gears only. Subsequent analysis by Barry Mellors at the then PFA now LAA has shown that this bulkhead is not necessary. This is why it never appeared in the manual. Unfortunately the factory failed to issue any notice to this effect and hence your query. I hope this helps Pete Jeffers (Europa Club Inspector) ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Philip Lincoln Sent: 23 June 2008 10:50 To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead This was mentioned in the Tech Talk part of 'Europa Aircraft News' from Dec. 1999 (Issue No.24). Has still not been added to the manual as far as I can see. I built it in before bonding in the Cockpit Module (tricky to do after bonding I think...), i.e. it should probably be part of Ch.17. I first measured the actual sizes that would be needed then cut and trimed (the ply) to fit 'exactly'. Have attached a photo of the page (can send the original to anyone who wants/needs it). Regards, Philip Lincoln (Stockholm, Sweden, Kit 426) ________________________________ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 16:15:29 -0700 From: aireupora@sbcglobal.net Subject: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead To: europa-list@matronics.com I have found one drawing of the front bulkhead that shows two pieces cut to 260 x 260x3mm, but my opening is larger and I can't find what chapter it addresses this bulkhead. From pjeffers@talktalk.net Tue Jun 24 08:51:59 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:51:59 From: Peter Jeffers Hi all, So there you have it. If you want to fix a bulkhead in place then there is no reason not to do so if you wish (Europa drawings were raised to construct it from ply and have not been withdrawn yet). It is not practical to install it if you are Mono, due retracting gear. The metal fire proof bulkhead (or Singleton Resin bulkhead) is intended to be fire, fume and smoke resistant so the need for another bulkhead may just be gilding the lily and adding weight. Your choice at the end of the day. In 1300 hours of flying Europas without this bulkhead, both mono & Tri, I have never experienced fumes in the cockpit with the sole exception of when carrying out stall testing. Perhaps a good stall warning!!! I doubt the extra bulkhead would have stopped this smell as I suspect it enters via a different route anyway. Pete Jeffers -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christoph Both Sent: 24 June 2008 02:54 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead Folks, A bulkhead keeps all the fumes from the engine compartment out of the tunnel, where because of an slight lower pressure of the cabin during flight (if you have done the air ventilation right) it will be partially sucked into the cabin). It takes only an hour or so to size the two 3mm plywood parts, and glass them in (fix them with 5 minute epoxy!. The entire step took only 2 hours if I remember right. The bulkhead now serves me also beautifully as mounting base for fuel pump and other smaller items (glider wing spoiler mechanism bracket). It will also be protected on the engine facing side with a stainless steel insulation blanket (Firewall 200, Aircraft Spruce) to keep off heat and in case of fire being sucked through (which it WILL because it follows the line of lower pressure out under the belly) it will be stopped by this security blanket. There is every reason for TRI to have a completely closing bulkhead. Christoph Both #223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Stockton Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 8:48 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead If I read this correctly I do need need the bulkhead. Does the stainless steel plating around the nose mount stop the air from going down the tunnel area? I would think that the air is not stopped. I'm wondering if there will be smells from the engine coming through the tunnel. Peter Jeffers wrote: Hi Phillip, I have followed up your enquiry re the bulkhead on Tri Gear Europas with Roger Bull at the factory. It would seem there has been a bit of lack of joined up action. You are quite right to notice the issue of the instruction in the Europa Aircraft News. At the time it was issued as a structural requirement for Tri Gears only. Subsequent analysis by Barry Mellors at the then PFA now LAA has shown that this bulkhead is not necessary. This is why it never appeared in the manual. Unfortunately the factory failed to issue any notice to this effect and hence your query. I hope this helps Pete Jeffers (Europa Club Inspector) ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Philip Lincoln Sent: 23 June 2008 10:50 To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead This was mentioned in the Tech Talk part of 'Europa Aircraft News' from Dec. 1999 (Issue No.24). Has still not been added to the manual as far as I can see. I built it in before bonding in the Cockpit Module (tricky to do after bonding I think...), i.e. it should probably be part of Ch.17. I first measured the actual sizes that would be needed then cut and trimed (the ply) to fit 'exactly'. Have attached a photo of the page (can send the original to anyone who wants/needs it). Regards, Philip Lincoln (Stockholm, Sweden, Kit 426) ________________________________ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 16:15:29 -0700 From: aireupora@sbcglobal.net Subject: Europa-List: Tri gear front bulkhead To: europa-list@matronics.com I have found one drawing of the front bulkhead that shows two pieces cut to 260 x 260x3mm, but my opening is larger and I can't find what chapter it addresses this bulkhead. Checked by AVG. 7:52 AM From ira.rampil@gmail.com Tue Jun 24 06:28:30 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Dynon Temp Probe Location? Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 06:28:30 From: rampil Hi Mike, I have my OAT sited inside the cowl NACA vent on the lower stbd side. It seems to work well except it heats up while standing still or taxiing despite plenty of insulation on top apparently due to proximity to the radiator in my 912ULS bird. Makes my EFIS computed Density Altitude read kinda screwy while waiting in line to take off. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189549#189549 From bryanallsop@hotmail.com Tue Jun 24 17:43:36 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Strobe problem Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:43:36 From: Bryan Allsop My strobe has stopped working! The problem could be with the wiring, the st robe, or the box circuit. Before I start reaching for the box in the confined spaces at the rear of t he fuselage, I thought it would be worth while asking advice from others wh o had the problem. Is there a sensible diagnostic procedure to avoid wastin g time? Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM _WL_Refresh_messenger_062008 From budyerly@msn.com Tue Jun 24 19:24:26 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Strobe problem Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:24:26 From: ALAN YERLY Bryan, Go to whelen.com and view the Installation and service manual notes. Check power and ground to the unit. Ohm out from the unit to the wings. Remove unit and bench test. If a Whelen unit (especially the older ones) has set for a long while, they need to be brought up to voltage slowly. I use a 9 volt drill battery to charge it for 15-30 minutes if the plane has not been used in a long time (12 months). Some of the units had a fuse inside the unit that could be changed, but that was a long time ago. Newer units are pretty full proof. If the unit is getting power and not working, best to send it in. I have repaired one in the shop at the customer support guys suggestion, and it was a blown fuse. Unless you are familiar with the unit, do not open it up and just poke around. Whelen is great about a fast turn around on the box. Bud Yerly Custom Flight ----- Original Message ----- From: Bryan Allsop To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 5:43 PM Subject: Europa-List: Strobe problem My strobe has stopped working! The problem could be with the wiring, the strobe, or the box circuit. Before I start reaching for the box in the confined spaces at the rear of the fuselage, I thought it would be worth while asking advice from others who had the problem. Is there a sensible diagnostic procedure to avoid wasting time? Bryan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger. IM on your terms. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution From willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk Wed Jun 25 02:58:24 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Dynon Temp Probe Location? Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 02:58:24 From: William Harrison I've put mine just behind the starboard U/C legs. This gives a simple wiring run to the remote compass (just above/behind the crew's heads) and also away from exhaust or engine heat. It seems to agree consistently with ATIS-reported temps to within one degree. Willie G-BZNY - now piling up the hours again after it's little rest. On 24 Jun 2008, at 14:28, rampil wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > I have my OAT sited inside the cowl NACA vent on the lower stbd side. > It seems to work well except it heats up while standing still or > taxiing > despite plenty of insulation on top apparently due to proximity to > the radiator in my 912ULS bird. > > Makes my EFIS computed Density Altitude read kinda screwy while > waiting > in line to take off. > > -------- > Ira N224XS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189549#189549 > > From steven.pitt2@ntlworld.com Wed Jun 25 07:09:05 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Strobe problem Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:09:05 From: Steve Pitt From ira.rampil@gmail.com Wed Jun 25 14:29:33 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Strobe problem Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:29:33 From: rampil Sorry Bryan, You'll have to get to the box for meaningful diagnosis. There is very little to do without that step. You did not describe the failure, is it just complete lights out, intermittent, one sided, or something else? When you flip the switch in the cabin, does the ammeter react? As Bud suggests, you need to find out if juice is flowing out to the supply box. If it is not, you can fix that. If it isn't I would recommend you disconnect the three wire bulb leads and check continuity one at a time (since they do not connect at the bulb) with a long extension wire. If those are OK, then send the box out for repair. I would not feel comfortable explaining the innards since very high voltage lives there and you would probably require a scope to check anything but an internal fuse. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189808#189808 From VE3LVO@rac.ca Wed Jun 25 17:39:42 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Wing sling belting Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:39:42 From: Fergus Kyle Cheers, Another cry in the wilderness......... The original classic trailer wing slings were made from fairly compliant black rubber which over the years has lent a tender black smudge on the wing surfaces in my latest transport attempt. Consumed by rage and jealousy, I ripped the offending materials from the carcass, and am now left with bitter regret and bits of rubber - and the strange feeling I may have been a touch venal. I am assuming that some of the early trailer-ites may have encountered the same disappointment and discovered a suitable replacement. I would like to think there's a supple, strong, compliant white compound (perhaps food belting) out there waiting to be scooped up and a thankful discoverer just keening to share his victory information. I've tried gleaning details from McMaster-Carr but I'm no chemist and the technical characteristics escape me. As a result I have five feet of intransigent, vicious brown crud in the garage waiting to chew holes in my wings. I'll hoof it with the pinions strapped to my back first... If you have superior knowledge and/or experience in this endeavour. let me be the first to help distribute it. Please? Ferg Europa Classic A064 still bumbling ahead From jeff@rmmm.net Wed Jun 25 17:29:35 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing sling belting Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:29:35 From: JEFF ROBERTS Ferg, I don't transport mine but I do have a wing dolly that I've left them in for a few years while building other parts. I used 8 inch wide strips of carpet. Good old rugged shag carpet. I still use it when I have the wings off and it's never left a mark, It's still as strong as 6 years ago when I built the dolly. Jeff R. A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 126 hours and climbing slowly and is cooling correctly. On Jun 25, 2008, at 4:39 PM, Fergus Kyle wrote: > > Cheers, > Another cry in the wilderness......... > The original classic trailer wing slings were made from fairly > compliant black rubber which over the years has lent a tender black > smudge > on the wing surfaces in my latest transport attempt. Consumed by rage > and > jealousy, I ripped the offending materials from the carcass, and am > now left > with bitter regret and bits of rubber - and the strange feeling I may > have > been a touch venal. > I am assuming that some of the early trailer-ites may have > encountered the same disappointment and discovered a suitable > replacement. I > would like to think there's a supple, strong, compliant white compound > (perhaps food belting) out there waiting to be scooped up and a > thankful > discoverer just keening to share his victory information. > I've tried gleaning details from McMaster-Carr but I'm no chemist > and the technical characteristics escape me. As a result I have five > feet of > intransigent, vicious brown crud in the garage waiting to chew holes > in my > wings. I'll hoof it with the pinions strapped to my back first... > If you have superior knowledge and/or experience in this endeavour. > let me be the first to help distribute it. Please? > Ferg > Europa Classic A064 still bumbling ahead > > From raimo.toivio@rwm.fi Thu Jun 26 02:14:00 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing sling belting Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:14:00 From: Raimo Toivio Ferg, > If you have superior knowledge and/or experience in this endeavour. Definetely I have not but... I bought an used old trailer from Germany and modified it little. Later I installed also a floor to it. First of all I put those rubbers to the hell, copied the wing shape and made new ones from wood. Look at the pics, they are yellow! Over those those wooden blocks I glued some very SOFT and THICK material. Just to prevent rubbing the wing painting, I use gling film over the wings everytime I carry them. That works. Hope this helps. My wings are more beautiful than new ones and I have trailered them 20 times = let is say 400 km = 250 miles. BTW 1: there are somewhere in the USA a copy pair of my wooden blocks and I hope he is happy w them. BTW 2: I never carry my stabilators on the trailer!!! Cleaning: I had same problem in a different place. The door rubber seals marked my cream colour doors ugly black. I tried everything like acetone to clean the door=B4s inside surfaces. Nothing helped - it was like a shit on the wall. Finally somebody gave me a tip to try method "same". My doors were easily cleaned by rubbing them with just ordinary pencil (india) rubber (eraser). Try it! Terveisin, Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fergus Kyle" Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 12:39 AM Subject: Europa-List: Wing sling belting > > Cheers, > Another cry in the wilderness......... > The original classic trailer wing slings were made from fairly > compliant black rubber which over the years has lent a tender black smudge > on the wing surfaces in my latest transport attempt. Consumed by rage and > jealousy, I ripped the offending materials from the carcass, and am now left > with bitter regret and bits of rubber - and the strange feeling I may have > been a touch venal. > I am assuming that some of the early trailer-ites may have > encountered the same disappointment and discovered a suitable replacement. I > would like to think there's a supple, strong, compliant white compound > (perhaps food belting) out there waiting to be scooped up and a thankful > discoverer just keening to share his victory information. > I've tried gleaning details from McMaster-Carr but I'm no chemist > and the technical characteristics escape me. As a result I have five feet of > intransigent, vicious brown crud in the garage waiting to chew holes in my > wings. I'll hoof it with the pinions strapped to my back first... > If you have superior knowledge and/or experience in this endeavour. > let me be the first to help distribute it. Please? > Ferg > Europa Classic A064 still bumbling ahead > > > > > > > > > > > From topglock@cox.net Wed Jun 25 18:03:50 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing sling belting Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:03:50 From: Rman 6" conveyor belting from McMaster-Carr on my transporter, lined with......... you guessed it, carpet. Three years of to and from (when needed) and no marks on the paint. Jeff - Baby Blue JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > > Ferg, > I don't transport mine but I do have a wing dolly that I've left them > in for a few years while building other parts. I used 8 inch wide > strips of carpet. Good old rugged shag carpet. I still use it when I > have the wings off and it's never left a mark, It's still as strong as > 6 years ago when I built the dolly. > > Jeff R. > A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 126 hours and climbing slowly and is cooling > correctly. > > > On Jun 25, 2008, at 4:39 PM, Fergus Kyle wrote: > >> >> Cheers, >> Another cry in the wilderness......... >> The original classic trailer wing slings were made from fairly >> compliant black rubber which over the years has lent a tender black >> smudge >> on the wing surfaces in my latest transport attempt. Consumed by rage >> and >> jealousy, I ripped the offending materials from the carcass, and am >> now left >> with bitter regret and bits of rubber - and the strange feeling I may >> have >> been a touch venal. >> I am assuming that some of the early trailer-ites may have >> encountered the same disappointment and discovered a suitable >> replacement. I >> would like to think there's a supple, strong, compliant white compound >> (perhaps food belting) out there waiting to be scooped up and a thankful >> discoverer just keening to share his victory information. >> I've tried gleaning details from McMaster-Carr but I'm no chemist >> and the technical characteristics escape me. As a result I have five >> feet of >> intransigent, vicious brown crud in the garage waiting to chew holes >> in my >> wings. I'll hoof it with the pinions strapped to my back first... >> If you have superior knowledge and/or experience in this endeavour. >> let me be the first to help distribute it. Please? >> Ferg >> Europa Classic A064 still bumbling ahead >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Checked by AVG. > From kpaviat@verizon.net Wed Jun 25 17:04:49 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing sling belting Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:04:49 From: Kim Prout Hi Fergus! I replaced my sling material with conveyer belt material approx .050 thick and 4 inches width to support the wing without sagging. To keep the material from chaffing the wing surface, I first lined the sling with a thin soft rubber material against the sling and then put a thin layer of fine felt on the rubber. In other words, the felt contacts the wing so any rubbing does not result in much friction or staining and the rubber material absorbs any shock to prevent denting or deformation. You may have to adjust the width of the metal support at the sling mounting area to allow for thickness variations. There are numerous materials available from McMaster-Carr. Hope this helps! Kim Prout From gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net Wed Jun 25 19:51:38 2008 Subject: Europa-List: technique for gluing polyethylene Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:51:38 From: Greg Fuchs FB Here is a method to glue tank material made from polyethylene. That is the good news. The bad news is evident upon watching. Windows media: http://www.tapplastics.com/info/video_detail.php?vid=21 &format=windowsmedia& Apple qucktime: http://www.tapplastics.com/info/video_detail.php?vid=21&format=quicktime&PHP SESSID 0806251945431500212305 Greg Fuchs A050 XS TRI Modifying Toe to Tri-brakes From DuaneFamly@aol.com Thu Jun 26 06:40:11 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Araldite 420/2102 - Availabilty Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:40:11 From: Mike Duane Just got my latest order of Araldite from Graco in Texas, USA. Yes, the price did go up to $213.25 per quart. It also had a 5-6 week lead time. But it is still available so I can finish my wings. Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org From ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk Thu Jun 26 07:46:05 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Wing sling belting Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:46:05 From: Robert C Harrison Hi! Ferg I used scrap conveyor belting but lined it with carpet by using a very strong industrial spray on adhesive. However be careful not to make the gap too tight or you will squeeze the wing.(lots of places have scrap belting) Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle Sent: 25 June 2008 22:40 Subject: Europa-List: Wing sling belting Cheers, Another cry in the wilderness......... The original classic trailer wing slings were made from fairly compliant black rubber which over the years has lent a tender black smudge on the wing surfaces in my latest transport attempt. Consumed by rage and jealousy, I ripped the offending materials from the carcass, and am now left with bitter regret and bits of rubber - and the strange feeling I may have been a touch venal. I am assuming that some of the early trailer-ites may have encountered the same disappointment and discovered a suitable replacement. I would like to think there's a supple, strong, compliant white compound (perhaps food belting) out there waiting to be scooped up and a thankful discoverer just keening to share his victory information. I've tried gleaning details from McMaster-Carr but I'm no chemist and the technical characteristics escape me. As a result I have five feet of intransigent, vicious brown crud in the garage waiting to chew holes in my wings. I'll hoof it with the pinions strapped to my back first... If you have superior knowledge and/or experience in this endeavour. let me be the first to help distribute it. Please? Ferg Europa Classic A064 still bumbling ahead From pr@dcanderson.myzen.co.uk Thu Jun 26 09:48:54 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing sling belting Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:48:54 From: Roger Anderson Fergus, Further to the other replies that you have had which suggest lining the supporting medium with carpet, the trouble with carpet is that it absorbs water if you have to trail in the rain. I now use polypropylene belt with synthetic leather sleeve over the top. I still get a slight mark on the wing but it is relatively easy to remove. Roger (G-BXTD) From VE3LVO@rac.ca Thu Jun 26 10:06:42 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Wing sling belting Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:06:42 From: Fergus Kyle To jeff Roberts, Jeff -Baby blue, Kim, Raimo and Bob, Thanks for having taken the time to save my wings. I'm going out to find the carpeting that fits the bill today. Think I'll slide a plate of polyethylene next the wings, and force the clamps out a bit. Also, I found Raimo's solution to be ideal - rub out black rubber with a rubber eraser....... Once again, the net pays great dividends! Cheers, Ferg From VE3LVO@rac.ca Thu Jun 26 10:26:00 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Wing sling belting Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:26:00 From: Fergus Kyle I forgot to thank Frank Wood out in Pincher Creek alberta for having taken the time with the others to solve my problem. Thanks, Frank (I learned to fly at Claresholm) Ferg From jimpuglise@comcast.net Thu Jun 26 17:25:35 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing sling belting Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:25:35 From: jimpuglise@comcast.net Ferg- I have gone a little differrent route. I placed the wings vertically (TE down) and covered about 10 inches of the LE and down about 24 inches with plastic. I then took 4 plies of uni about 8 inches X 48 inches and laid them over the LE to use it like a mold. I added plastic on the outside of it and taped it to assure that the UNI held fast to the shape of the wing. After cure, I cut it into two pieces 4 X 48 and used them to outline the shape of the wing on plywood. I made up two pieces from plywood and glued the UNI forms into them. I line the UNI with bubble wrap to transport the wings and it seems to work very well. For those who are having trouble with rubber getting onto your wings, the bubble wrap may ge a good solution. It is very inexpensive and can be used several times. Jim Puglise A-283 -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Fergus Kyle" > > To jeff Roberts, Jeff -Baby blue, Kim, Raimo and Bob, > Thanks for having taken the time to save my wings. I'm going out to > find the carpeting that fits the bill today. Think I'll slide a plate of > polyethylene next the wings, and force the clamps out a bit. Also, I found > Raimo's solution to be ideal - rub out black rubber with a rubber > eraser....... Once again, the net pays great dividends! > Cheers, Ferg > > > > > >

Ferg-

I have gone a little differrent route. I placed the wings vertically (TE down) and covered about 10 inches of the LE and down about 24 inches with plastic. I then took 4 plies of uni about 8 inches X 48 inches and laid them over the LE to use it like a mold. I added plastic on the outside of it and taped it to assure that the UNI held fast to the shape of the wing. After cure, I cut it into two pieces 4 X 48 and used them to outline the shape of the wing on plywood. I made up two pieces from plywood and glued the UNI forms into them. I line the UNI with bubble wrap to transport the wings and it seems to work very well. For those who are having trouble with rubber getting onto your wings, the bubble wrap may ge a good solution. It is very inexpensive and can be used several times.

Jim Puglise A-283

s List

From jimpuglise@comcast.net Thu Jun 26 17:26:17 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing sling belting Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:26:17 From: jimpuglise@comcast.net -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Fergus Kyle" > > To jeff Roberts, Jeff -Baby blue, Kim, Raimo and Bob, > Thanks for having taken the time to save my wings. I'm going out to > find the carpeting that fits the bill today. Think I'll slide a plate of > polyethylene next the wings, and force the clamps out a bit. Also, I found > Raimo's solution to be ideal - rub out black rubber with a rubber > eraser....... Once again, the net pays great dividends! > Cheers, Ferg > > > > > > From josoke@ukolo.fi Fri Jun 27 01:08:25 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Throttle Friction - Lack Of Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:08:25 From: josok Yes, i had the nuts welded to the washers, result is that the friction points are between the nylon washers and the lever. Original design slips between metal washers and nuts. So far, 135 hrs, no need to adjust. Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org From ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk Fri Jun 27 06:02:25 2008 Subject: Europa-List: FW: (N714GZ) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:02:25 From: Robert C Harrison Hi! All Only slightly "off topic", yes sure enough reg No. N714GZ is in my log book ! It is interesting to see the attitude of the law in the USA ....compared to what it would be here in the UK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is also interesting to see that the aircraft has survived probably thousands of hours whilst being abused by many training pilots at Ormond Beach Training School. Like a trip back in time, what ? Regards Bob H G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: John Moar [mailto:johnmoar@hotmail.co.uk] Sent: 26 June 2008 23:22 Subject: FW: (N714GZ) Hi Bob, I was sent this link today, it is one of the E-Mails that is circling around at work just now. I recognised the registration as one of the old Cessnas that I have flown on a few occasions, it may be in your log book also! Best regards, John. PS, say hi to Jan from me please! > > http://www.news-journalonline.com/media/index.htm?bcpid=1541042960&bcli d=113 4198054&bctid=1612710891 > _____ Get fish-slapping on Messenger! Play Now From willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk Fri Jun 27 10:01:08 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Rotax carb heaters Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:01:08 From: William Harrison Folks, 2 questions: 1. What experience does anyone have of electric or coolant-based carb heaters for Rotax engines? 2. Can anyone tell me whether either of these is regarded as a standard mod by the LAA? Many thanks in advance. Willie Harrison G-BZNY From rick@amimotormanagement.co.uk Fri Jun 27 10:18:52 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax carb heaters Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:18:52 From: rick Hi Willie How's it? I've used the Skydrive jackets for 4 years and 400 hours with never a problem. I would automatically fit them if I did another 912 kit. Not a issue with the LAA as far as I can remember. Incidentally a lot of the Vans owning guys are looking jealously at our fuel figures at the moment!! All the best Rick G-RIKS Tri 912S G-RMRV IO-360 RV7A -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Harrison Sent: 27 June 2008 10:01 Subject: Europa-List: Rotax carb heaters --> Folks, 2 questions: 1. What experience does anyone have of electric or coolant-based carb heaters for Rotax engines? 2. Can anyone tell me whether either of these is regarded as a standard mod by the LAA? Many thanks in advance. Willie Harrison G-BZNY From carl.pattinson@btinternet.com Fri Jun 27 02:46:44 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Rotax carb heaters Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:46:44 From: Carl Pattinson The Skydrive kit is an accepted engine mod and you shouldnt have a problem with then PFA. The electric ones as far as I know are not an approved mod for the Europa unless someone has done this privately. I beleive it may be approved for Jabiru installations. The Skydrive ones seem to be problem free and do not affect engine performance. They are left permanantly turned on so require no management like conventional carb heat systems. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190050#190050 From craigb@onthenet.com.au Fri Jun 27 20:22:20 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax carb heaters Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:22:20 From: craig bastin "Incidentally a lot of the Vans owning guys are looking jealously at our fuel figures at the moment!!" given the price of fuel now and the performace of the Europa I bet a lot of the Cessna and piper owners would be too. It's great when your plane gets better fuel economy than your car as well : ) craig Checked by AVG. 11:20 AM From jeff@rmmm.net Fri Jun 27 09:34:13 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rotax carb heaters Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:34:13 From: JEFF ROBERTS On Jun 27, 2008, at 4:46 AM, Carl Pattinson wrote: > The Skydrive ones seem to be problem free and do not affect engine > performance. They are left permanantly turned on so require no > management like conventional carb heat systems. You will want to install a simple on off 1/4 inch fuel valve on the sky drive carb heat coolant line. Before I did that my carbs were boiling fuel on hot summer days. Now I just pull the small knob under the panel if I want carb heat. The sky drive system works great. Just don't leave it on all the time if you taxi in hot weather on the hot tarmac. Regards Jeff R. A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 127 hours and finally cooling nicely. > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190050#190050 > > From giani@ntlworld.com Fri Jun 27 17:41:28 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax carb heaters Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:41:28 From: G-IANI All the paperwork is done for the Skydrive Carb heaters to be a standard mod. I will send you a copy off list. I first submitted them in 2005 (in conjunction with Skydrive) and they just sat on Francis's desk. In April this year Andy Draper agreed that they should form part of a series of mods for 91X engines, rather than being a Europa mod. So I resubmitted the application on 18th April. So far nothing has happened. Despite all this there should be no problem with the Mod but I do wish LAA would do its paper work and make everybody's life a little simpler. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld. From raimo.toivio@rwm.fi Fri Jun 27 23:26:41 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax carb heaters Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:26:41 From: Raimo Toivio 1) I have cbchs and I am happy. So far no icing and flying almost all the time in icing conditions. Think it is wise: air is cool and carburrettor body is warm. Mine is always on - no valve. Raimo OH-XRT, between strikes again ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Harrison" Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 12:01 PM Subject: Europa-List: Rotax carb heaters > > Folks, 2 questions: > > 1. What experience does anyone have of electric or coolant-based carb > heaters for Rotax engines? > > 2. Can anyone tell me whether either of these is regarded as a > standard mod by the LAA? > > Many thanks in advance. > > Willie Harrison > G-BZNY > > > > > From rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Fri Jun 27 21:20:14 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax carb heaters Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 21:20:14 From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us On the subject of carb. ice, has anyone gotten carb. ice on a 914? If yes were you able to get rid of it by boosting manifold pressure? Does anyone run water or electric carb heat on a 914? Ron Parigoris From giani@ntlworld.com Sat Jun 28 08:27:12 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax carb heaters Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:27:12 From: G-IANI Ron In 250 hour flown in the UK never any sign of carb ice and we have flown all winter. So, as I have read elsewhere, no need for carb heaters. Same experience with G-IRON. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 914, 250 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com From pjeffers@talktalk.net Sat Jun 28 09:18:30 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax carb heaters Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:18:30 From: Peter Jeffers Hi all, Running a 912 (Classic Europa) for 1250 hrs in the often cold moist air of the UK with no carb heater has resulted in a reasonably regular indication of carb icing. The thing to be aware of is that with the Rotax 900 series engines carb icing manifests itself rather differently from your Continentals and Lycomings. In the case of Rotax it shows itself as the occasional cough or what seems like misfire as each carb in turn ingests bits of ice shed from the throat. When it happens (and nowadays I have become quite good at predicting it)the solution is to warm the core temp of the engine by making it work hard for two or three minutes. IE open the throttle to climb power. Depending on the severity of the icing will determine how long it is before getting a recurrence. I have found that even in moderate icing conditions a period of at least 20 mins elapses before a need to re warm the engine. Now to the Rotax carb heater which uses coolant water to warm the carb throat. Inevitably this will only work effectively if the coolant temp is kept high enough. Quite often I have flown Rotax engined A/C where the coolant temp in cruise drops to 55 or 60 degrees C. In icing conditions, even with a carb heater installed and low coolant temps I have still encountered carb icing on a number of occasions. So to sum up avoidance of carb icing, with or without a heater, it is essential to keep your coolant (and Oil) temps minimums up around the 90 degree area. Pete Jeffers -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI Sent: 28 June 2008 08:27 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax carb heaters Ron In 250 hour flown in the UK never any sign of carb ice and we have flown all winter. So, as I have read elsewhere, no need for carb heaters. Same experience with G-IRON. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 914, 250 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com Checked by AVG. 11:20 AM From rowlandcarson@googlemail.com Sat Jun 28 09:48:36 2008 Subject: Europa-List: mono brake mounting Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:48:36 From: Rowland Carson The manual shows a measurement for positioning the monowheel brake master cylinder which looks as though it might be made parallel to the top corenr of the tunnel moulding. However, that would put one of the mounting holes in a brown foam area which would obviously crush when the mounting fastener was tightened. However, measuring horizontally with the fuselage lying on the ground (instead of slantwise along the top corner of the tunnel) puts both holes in a plain resin area, which I feel confident is the correct location. However, (since I can't rely on the picture on the manual) I'm wondering about the angle at which the master cylinder is mounted. Should it be parallel to the tunnel top, or should it be as near to horizontal as possible (with the fuselage level), or should it be horizontal in the tail-down attitude (to make bleeding easier)? Any suggestions? regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://home.clara.net/rowil/ From rowlandcarson@googlemail.com Sat Jun 28 09:32:49 2008 Subject: Europa-List: monowheel centre console bulkhead Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:32:49 From: Rowland Carson I've just cut out the monowheel centre console bulkhead shape from 3mm ply. [Incidentally I wish I'd left the flap lever cutout intact until later - the flange layup would be much easier with that present.] {And another thing - I wanted to print a spare copy of the template so as to leave my build manual intact, but I can't find that page (11-7) in any of the PDF copies. Eventually I scanned it and printed a sacrificial copy from that - but does anyone know where the template might be found in the PDF manuals?} Anyway (before this gets too much like a Ronnie Corbet big chair joke), what I really wanted to ask is about the installation of the bulkhead, which acts as a "mudguard". I am looking at the installation instructions and I can't see any reference to coating the ply with resin, nor putting a layer of BID on the "outside" of it (as is done with the inboard thigh support ribs which also face the outside world). Anyone see any reason why I shouldn't put a layer of BID on the "weather" side of that bulkhead? I certainly don't want to leave a raw piece of ply open to everything the wheel will throw up. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://home.clara.net/rowil/ From ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk Sat Jun 28 11:46:42 2008 Subject: Europa-List: For European/U K members .....attention. Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 11:46:42 From: Robert C Harrison Hi! ALL It is Wickenby (EGNW) WINGS and WHEELS Event and Fly In this weekend ... Saturday 28th and Sunday 29th June. If you can please help a worthy cause and swell the numbers with a Fly In . Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG From frankm@clara.net Sat Jun 28 18:54:05 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Fuel pipes Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 18:54:05 From: Frank Mycroft G-BWYD has fuel pipes which are rubber with a cotton and then a stainless braid covering. They look great, as though they would last for ever - but they don't! One of mine sprung a leak after I moved it a bit and when I removed the stainless and then the cotton braids I found that it was perished and split circumferentially in the place where it was leaking. The pipes are obviously resistant to outside abrasion, but you can't see what's happening inside and they plainly have a limited life, at least inside the engine compartment. Mine had been in place for 11 years. What pipes do people recommend? Alloy pipes are great if installed during the build, but not so easy for a retrofit. I have Aeroquip 303 ---From the tank to the electric pump, but the stuff with the stainless braid from then on when the chances of outside abrasion are greater. LAS don't seem to supply the stainless braid stuff. How do people protect the Aeroquip pipe where it could suffer from outside abrasion. Frank From rehn@rockisland.com Sat Jun 28 12:02:07 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel pipes Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:02:07 From: Jerry Rehn Frank Many of us are using auto grade fuel injection hose. It's tough and heavier and designed for auto gas and deals with alcohol unlike milspec airplane hose. They are very resistant to abrasion. It's a good practice to replace all the rubber at least every 6 years. I think Europa has even a shorter time frame. Nice part is you can purchase it at most auto supply houses. Jerry _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Mycroft Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 10:54 AM Subject: Europa-List: Fuel pipes G-BWYD has fuel pipes which are rubber with a cotton and then a stainless braid covering. They look great, as though they would last for ever - but they don't! One of mine sprung a leak after I moved it a bit and when I removed the stainless and then the cotton braids I found that it was perished and split circumferentially in the place where it was leaking. The pipes are obviously resistant to outside abrasion, but you can't see what's happening inside and they plainly have a limited life, at least inside the engine compartment. Mine had been in place for 11 years. What pipes do people recommend? Alloy pipes are great if installed during the build, but not so easy for a retrofit. I have Aeroquip 303 from the tank to the electric pump, but the stuff with the stainless braid from then on when the chances of outside abrasion are greater. LAS don't seem to supply the stainless braid stuff. How do people protect the Aeroquip pipe where it could suffer from outside abrasion. Frank From ploucandco@yahoo.com Sat Jun 28 12:08:38 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Rotax carb heaters Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:08:38 From: ploucandco Hi Ron, Ian, Concerning the 914, the following documents section 18 is interesting: http://www.rotax-owner.com/support/UNDERSTANDING%20THE%20914%20ROTAX.pdf All depends if you have an intercooler or not. Jacques. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190261#190261 From carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk Sat Jun 28 21:14:18 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel pipes Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 21:14:18 From: Carl Pattinson Funny you should say that. I have today replaced all my braided hose for the newer stuff from the factory Which dosent have the protective sheath), because my inspector pretty much said the same about the old style Europa hose as you have - ie: looks great but not fit for purpose. Cant say I noticed anything wrong with the old stuff (5yrs old), but clearly it dosent age well. Dont really see the need for metal braided covering if the hoses are secured properly. Even braid will wear if not secured properly. I think its fair to say that aircraft quality hose probably wont do the job if you are usiing mogas as it appears to be more aggressive towards unsuitable hose. Probably best to use racing spec stuff as racing fuels can contain a lot of alcohol/ethanol - presumably the hose can cope with that. Carl Pattinson G-LABS ----- Original Message ----- From: Frank Mycroft To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 6:54 PM Subject: Europa-List: Fuel pipes G-BWYD has fuel pipes which are rubber with a cotton and then a stainless braid covering. They look great, as though they would last for ever - but they don't! One of mine sprung a leak after I moved it a bit and when I removed the stainless and then the cotton braids I found that it was perished and split circumferentially in the place where it was leaking. The pipes are obviously resistant to outside abrasion, but you can't see what's happening inside and they plainly have a limited life, at least inside the engine compartment. Mine had been in place for 11 years. What pipes do people recommend? Alloy pipes are great if installed during the build, but not so easy for a retrofit. I have Aeroquip 303 ---From the tank to the electric pump, but the stuff with the stainless braid from then on when the chances of outside abrasion are greater. LAS don't seem to supply the stainless braid stuff. How do people protect the Aeroquip pipe where it could suffer from outside abrasion. Frank From JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Sat Jun 28 21:58:56 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: mono brake mounting Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 21:58:56 From: JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Rowland There is a metal insert in the tunnel wall (the area you call the "plain resin area"). The mounting holes need to go in this area, parallel to the top of the tunnel as shown in the illustration. John Heykoop XS mono G-JHKP In a message dated 28/06/2008 09:52:40 GMT Standard Time, rowlandcarson@googlemail.com writes: The manual shows a measurement for positioning the monowheel brake master cylinder which looks as though it might be made parallel to the top corenr of the tunnel moulding. However, that would put one of the mounting holes in a brown foam area which would obviously crush when the mounting fastener was tightened. However, measuring horizontally with the fuselage lying on the ground (instead of slantwise along the top corner of the tunnel) puts both holes in a plain resin area, which I feel confident is the correct location. However, (since I can't rely on the picture on the manual) I'm wondering about the angle at which the master cylinder is mounted. Should it be parallel to the tunnel top, or should it be as near to horizontal as possible (with the fuselage level), or should it be horizontal in the tail-down attitude (to make bleeding easier)? Any suggestions? regards Rowland From JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Sat Jun 28 22:17:45 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: monowheel centre console bulkhead Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 22:17:45 From: JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Rowland As you work your way through the manual you will find that it gets less and less detailed, because it is assumed that having been told once, we can now work out for ourselves what would be good practice. The "mudguard" will have to cope not just with mud, but also with stones and other debris thrown up by the main wheel. Adding a ply of "bid" will protect it. John Heykoop XS mono G-JHKP In a message dated 28/06/2008 09:52:42 GMT Standard Time, rowlandcarson@googlemail.com writes: --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson I've just cut out the monowheel centre console bulkhead shape from 3mm ply. [Incidentally I wish I'd left the flap lever cutout intact until later - the flange layup would be much easier with that present.] {And another thing - I wanted to print a spare copy of the template so as to leave my build manual intact, but I can't find that page (11-7) in any of the PDF copies. Eventually I scanned it and printed a sacrificial copy from that - but does anyone know where the template might be found in the PDF manuals?} Anyway (before this gets too much like a Ronnie Corbet big chair joke), what I really wanted to ask is about the installation of the bulkhead, which acts as a "mudguard". I am looking at the installation instructions and I can't see any reference to coating the ply with resin, nor putting a layer of BID on the "outside" of it (as is done with the inboard thigh support ribs which also face the outside world). Anyone see any reason why I shouldn't put a layer of BID on the "weather" side of that bulkhead? I certainly don't want to leave a raw piece of ply open to everything the wheel will throw up. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://home.clara.net/rowil/ From milneab@btinternet.com Sun Jun 29 08:08:16 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax carb heaters Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:08:16 From: A B Milne Willie, In my XS Trigear G-CBYN I have 450 hours behind a non induction heated 912S and 100 hours on one with a coolant heated connector on the manifold side of the carb as supplied by Skydrive. The former has regularily given a burble as ice is swallowed from each carb. Before the burble the effect of the ice on performance is unnoticeable. The twitches generated on me are not. With the heater I have never had a suggestion of the burble. The heating is effective and I am sticking with it on the new aircraft. Installation is simple but moves the intake plenum chamber rearwards about 15mm. The inspector did not consider it as a mod and just signed up the logbook. Alasdair Milne ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Harrison" Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: Europa-List: Rotax carb heaters > > > Folks, 2 questions: > > 1. What experience does anyone have of electric or coolant-based carb > heaters for Rotax engines? > > 2. Can anyone tell me whether either of these is regarded as a standard > mod by the LAA? > > Many thanks in advance. > > Willie Harrison > G-BZNY > > > From giani@ntlworld.com Sun Jun 29 10:21:29 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: monowheel centre console bulkhead Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:21:29 From: G-IANI Roland "Anyone see any reason why I shouldn't put a layer of BID on the "weather" side of that bulkhead? I certainly don't want to leave a raw piece of ply open to everything the wheel will throw up." Do not put a layer of BID on ONE side of the bulkhead do BOTH sides. Just coating the back with epoxy is nearly as good as it keep the moisture out but the additional weight of the glass is minimal. If you do not seal the back the ply will warp. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com From ira.rampil@gmail.com Sun Jun 29 05:41:30 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel pipes Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 05:41:30 From: rampil Speaking from a wear, longevity, and solvent resistant standpoint, Aeroquip 666 is the best choice. Teflon interior with a conductive stripe to prevent static charge, no fixed service life, etc. The problem is that it will not slide over Europa or Rotax slide on fittings. The new rotax fuel hoses require new fittings on the carbs and a new fuel pump with new fittings. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190369#190369 From rowlandcarson@googlemail.com Sun Jun 29 19:10:12 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: mono brake mounting Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:10:12 From: Rowland Carson >There is a metal insert in the tunnel wall (the area you call the >"plain resin area"). The mounting holes need to go in this area, >parallel to the top of the tunnel John - thanks for that confirmation. So, if the cylinder is parallel to the top of the tunnel, the filling hole will be at the lower end of the cylinder. How does the air in the upper end of the cylinder get expelled when trying to fill the brake system with fluid or to bleed it? All sounds potentially messy. Seems it would be better if the cylinder was tilted downwards at the front so the filler hole was at the highest point of the cylinder - of course that would reduce the length of lever available above the tunnel so would probably be undesirable. I suppose one answer would be to tilt the whole fuselage tail-up when filling the brake system .... regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/ | 1030 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail From josoke@ukolo.fi Mon Jun 30 01:33:48 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: mono brake mounting Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 01:33:48 From: josok Hi Rowland, In the mean time i filled the brake system several times. First time before the first flight, second and third time because there was a leak at the top connection of the nylon tube, (too tight is not good here), and the last time when the tube got loose after my wheel up landing. It's not that difficult to get the air out. I squeeze the oil from the bottom up, until it runs out of the slightly opened filler hole. Be prepared to catch the oil with a cloth or paper though! And eh, where there has been oil, paint will never stick, whatever cleaning you do. Better to wait with the filling till after the paint job. Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org From JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Sun Jun 29 19:31:13 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: mono brake mounting Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:31:13 From: JohnDHeykoop@aol.com In a message dated 29/06/2008 19:15:22 GMT Standard Time, rowlandcarson@googlemail.com writes: So, if the cylinder is parallel to the top of the tunnel, the filling hole will be at the lower end of the cylinder. How does the air in the upper end of the cylinder get expelled when trying to fill the brake system with fluid or to bleed it? All sounds potentially messy. Seems it would be better if the cylinder was tilted downwards at the front so the filler hole was at the highest point of the cylinder - of course that would reduce the length of lever available above the tunnel so would probably be undesirable. I suppose one answer would be to tilt the whole fuselage tail-up when filling the brake system Rowland Don't worry about bleeding the brake system - other people have managed to do it. If you deviate from the manual and fit the cylinder tilting downwards you could potentially run into much more serious problems, like not being able to retract the wheel fully. John From ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk Mon Jun 30 06:35:08 2008 Subject: Europa-List: What's wrong with flying in June? Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 06:35:08 From: Robert C Harrison Hi! All I must pass on my eternal thanks to Ivor Phillips with his "just flight tested" 'plane G-IVER for his support by attending my Scandinavian Tour and also attending the Wickenby Wings and Wheels event yesterday and Saturday. I am disappointed though that both events, I think, finished up as just "two ship" events.( I was unable to stay over Saturday afternoon so should any one have dropped in then I just may have missed them) Wickenby had a whole weekend of events Tank and Recovery Equipment, Traction Engine, Classic Cars, model Aircraft and unexploded bombs and full time hog roasts and was well attended by other "breeds" of aircraft but Europa aircraft were sadly conspicuous by their absence. G-PTAG was on display semi assembled with it's covered trailer and at least Ivor's attendance with his wife Mona demonstrated that they do really fly! There is a good chance that the same dates for Wickenby will be used next year so please get them highlighted as a must do in your 2009 diary's. (Report to follow on the Scandinavian Tour) regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG From pjeffers@talktalk.net Mon Jun 30 08:44:36 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: mono brake mounting Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 08:44:36 From: Peter Jeffers Rowland, The fluid topping problem is simple you just ask someone to lift the tail !!!!!!! Pete _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Sent: 30 June 2008 00:31 Subject: Re: Europa-List: mono brake mounting In a message dated 29/06/2008 19:15:22 GMT Standard Time, rowlandcarson@googlemail.com writes: So, if the cylinder is parallel to the top of the tunnel, the filling hole will be at the lower end of the cylinder. How does the air in the upper end of the cylinder get expelled when trying to fill the brake system with fluid or to bleed it? All sounds potentially messy. Seems it would be better if the cylinder was tilted downwards at the front so the filler hole was at the highest point of the cylinder - of course that would reduce the length of lever available above the tunnel so would probably be undesirable. I suppose one answer would be to tilt the whole fuselage tail-up when filling the brake system Rowland Don't worry about bleeding the brake system - other people have managed to do it. If you deviate from the manual and fit the cylinder tilting downwards you could potentially run into much more serious problems, like not being able to retract the wheel fully. John From willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk Mon Jun 30 12:50:44 2008 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax carb heaters Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:50:44 From: William Harrison Thanks to all for some very helpful replies. My recent switch to MOGAS seems to have turned a very occasional double cough into something worse. Two weeks ago in wet warm air I lost power for a couple of seconds (but felt longer). Not what you really want. I'll ask Andy/Francis to clarify/formalise the situation regarding Ian's mod application. Thanks again, folks. Willie On 27 Jun 2008, at 17:41, G-IANI wrote: > > > All the paperwork is done for the Skydrive Carb heaters to be a > standard > mod. I will send you a copy off list. I first submitted them in > 2005 (in > conjunction with Skydrive) and they just sat on Francis's desk. > > From rick@amimotormanagement.co.uk Mon Jun 30 15:41:57 2008 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax carb heaters Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:41:57 From: rick Hi Willie Maybe there are other issues......... I ran mine for a summer before fitting the jackets and never even got near to a couple of seconds power loss only ever a mild cough. Sounds a bit like fuel vaporisation to me. All the best Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Harrison Sent: 30 June 2008 12:51 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax carb heaters --> Thanks to all for some very helpful replies. My recent switch to MOGAS seems to have turned a very occasional double cough into something worse. Two weeks ago in wet warm air I lost power for a couple of seconds (but felt longer). Not what you really want. I'll ask Andy/Francis to clarify/formalise the situation regarding Ian's mod application. Thanks again, folks. Willie On 27 Jun 2008, at 17:41, G-IANI wrote: > > > All the paperwork is done for the Skydrive Carb heaters to be a > standard mod. I will send you a copy off list. I first submitted them > in > 2005 (in > conjunction with Skydrive) and they just sat on Francis's desk. > > Checked by AVG. 15:09 Checked by AVG. 15:09 From grahamsingleton@btinternet.com Mon Jun 30 23:40:46 2008 Subject: Europa-List: Motor Glider Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:40:46 From: Graham Singleton All Lyle Schofield in Lancaster/ Palmdale, CA has nearly finished his motorglider and needs a bit of help checking out the airplane before submitting it to the FAA for inspection. Are there any builders in Southern California who could give him a hand? Familiarity with the motor glider would be an advantage but imho any Europa builder would be able to help him finish the minor adjustments remaining. Lyle is an interesting guy, he was a flight test engineer on several outstanding aircraft, B58, XB70 and others. I had an interesting morning with him a week ago after I went to Burt and Dick's birthday event at Mojave. I'd love to go soaring in the CA mountains, pity its so far from Derbyshire :-\ Graham